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13th Mobility Working Group

Last Updated:

Overview

  • Date and time: January 27, 2026 (Tuesday) 10:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m.
  • Location: Online
  • Agenda
    1. Opening
      1. Mobility Roadmap 2026 Points of Discussion (Draft) and How to Proceed with its Formulation
      2. 2025 public call Status of the Regional Project for Pioneering Commercialization of Self-Driving Society Implementation
      3. "Survey and Research on the Redesign of Mobility Services with Integrated Supply and Demand"
    2. Exchange of views
    3. Adjournment

Material

Minutes

Director Suzuki: We will now begin the 13th meeting of the Mobility Working Group. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to attend today. I am Mr. Suzuki from the secretariat, and I will serve as the chairperson today. I look forward to working with you. First of all, regarding the administrative communication, today's meeting will be held in a hybrid format with the online meeting. For members who participate online, please keep the camera on during the meeting and unmute your microphone when speaking. If someone else is speaking, please mute your microphone. In addition, please turn off the camera and microphone for the audience. Please note that we are recording the minutes for internal sharing within the secretariat and for future minutes. We ask for your understanding in advance.

Next, I would like to confirm the agenda. It is as written in the agenda that was sent in advance, but the agenda, documents 1-5, list of attendees.

Next, there will be a change in the members of the Working Group. As experts of the Working Group, I would like to make a request to the basic members. In addition, Mr. Mori, a member of the Working Group, will not be attending today, but he will be present. As for the absence, Mr. Kawabata, Mr. Koshizuka, and Mr. Saito, members of the Working Group, will not be attending today. In addition, due to time constraints, I would like to replace the introduction of today's attendees with the distribution of the list of attendees that we have with us.

Now, in opening the working group, I would like to have a greeting from Chief Uno.

Chief Uno: . Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to join us today. My name is Uno, and I was appointed Special Advisor to the Prime Minister in October last year. I am in charge of two areas, one is social infrastructure development and the other is Science, Technology and Innovation Policy, and I wonder if there are any issues for the mobility working group to discuss. In that sense, I am serving as Chief of this working group, and I look forward to working with you in the future.

In 2024, this Mobility Working Group, particularly with regard to autonomous driving, formulated the Mobility Roadmap for the first time in 2024. Last year's Mobility Roadmap 2025 is also being formulated based on discussions among the members. I would like to express my deep appreciation for the discussions and cooperation at that time. Next, this time, the Mobility Roadmap 2026 will be formulated around June of this year. It will be formulated every year, and each ministry and agency will take measures based on it. Since this autonomous driving society is evolving every day and the situation is always changing, this roadmap will be revised every year. While evaluating the progress of each policy presented in the roadmap so far and the recent technological trends in autonomous driving, we would like to have the Mobility Working Group discuss policy guidelines for the social implementation of autonomous driving, in particular, the ideal state of traffic trading company function and measures for the commercialization of autonomous driving services presented in the roadmap 2025.

From Digital Agency, I will explain the "Mobility Roadmap 2026 Points of Discussion (Draft) and How to Proceed with the Formulation" and the "Status of Surveys and Research on Transportation Trading Companies function." I hope that you will give us your frank opinions, which will lead to the formulation of the Roadmap 2026. Thank you very much.

Director Suzuki: Thank you very much. Now, let's move on to the agenda. First, I would like to explain the "Mobility Roadmap 2026 Proposed Issues and How to Proceed with its Formulation."

Deputy Director-General Okada: As you can see in Document 3, as I mentioned earlier, the public call for the preliminary commercialization area has been open since the end of last year, and the deadline was last Friday. We will verify the selected area, but if you look at the third one, we would like to examine each application from these six aspects of the selection method. In terms of the plan, we are public call the areas to be commercialized by around fiscal 2027, and we would like to confirm the accuracy of the plan. Then, we will look at the system aspect to implement the plan, and the results for the areas where automated driving services have been demonstrated so far. Also, in terms of management, whether the management plan for commercialization is solid. Then, we would like to examine from the aspects of technology and finally social acceptance. . Please take a look at Handout 2.

On page 3, as Chief Uno mentioned earlier, this is a review of the Mobility Roadmap 2025 that was compiled last year, so I would like to give a brief explanation. On the right, you presented key policies. The first is the establishment of Transportation Trading Company function. As autonomous driving is very expensive at the moment, it will not be profitable unless demand is appropriately established, and service design that integrates supply and demand is necessary, so Transportation Trading Company function has been proposed. How to establish Transportation Trading Company digital infrastructure, including the introduction and development of function that should be shared? The second is the further development of support measures for the implementation of autonomous driving technology. As I mentioned earlier, it will continue to cost money, so how to reduce the initial introduction cost, how to develop a system for accidents, and how to improve social acceptability are presented. The third is the intensive input of policies by each ministry and agency according to the target, which is called Pioneering Commercialization Region. As I mentioned earlier, if various measures are input here and there in a piecemeal manner, it will be difficult to move from demonstration to implementation, so Transportation Trading Company Kyushu has been proposed to select about 10 locations for intensive input of support measures.

If you look at page 5, the current pilot project areas will be divided into three types and selected. The leftmost one is the latest technology type, which is assumed to be a route connecting any points, something like a so-called Robotak (robot taxi). The second is the expansion of the operation area type, which is assumed to be an area where we are already operating a Level 4 autonomous driving service and are expanding it to other regional routes. The third type is to conduct demonstrations to solve technical issues that still remain.

The next page is a simple conceptual diagram of function, a transportation trading company. As I said earlier, in order to firmly establish demand, we will first firmly grasp demand. Then we will firmly create demand. The left side is the supply side, and in regions where various supplies are available, we will work as function, a transportation trading company, including optimizing what kind of supply we can provide. In doing so, in matching supply and demand, as written in the middle of the common base, we are aiming to match well using digital infrastructure.

Next, regarding the issues of the Roadmap 2026, please refer to page 8. As I just mentioned, we are currently conducting surveys and research on the ideal form of traffic trading companies function in Digital Agency. Later, I will report on the current situation, but based on the contents of this report, I would like you to further deepen the definition of traffic trading companies, or look at good examples, and discuss whether these elements are necessary for their spread or if there are remaining issues. Second, most of the areas for pioneering commercialization and the commercialization of autonomous driving services are still in the demonstration stage, so I would like you to discuss the ideal form of initiatives for commercialization and implementation. And, although it was not included in 2025, I would like you to discuss the direction that policies are necessary for the promotion of autonomous driving in the logistics field, while following the status of the implementation of autonomous driving in logistics. Furthermore, in the Roadmap 2025, various ministries and agencies have set out that such measures should be taken, so I would like to follow up on the status of their initiatives and discuss the direction of future policies based on the progress. As for other issues, if there are any specific issues that should be discussed at this time, I would like you to comment today as well.

As for the schedule on page 9, the next mobility working meeting will be held on February 24. The advanced commercialization areas were closed last Friday, so I would like you to discuss the selected areas based on the results. As for reports from each ministry and agency, the third Basic Plan on Transport Policy was approved by the Cabinet at the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism on January 16. In this plan, a new target of 10,000 units for autonomous driving by 2030 was proposed, so I would like you to report on this. In Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, the third session of the Next-Generation ITS Study Group for the Autonomous Driving Era was launched in September last year, and I would like you to report on the status of consideration.

In mid-to-late March, I believe that the survey project of function, a transportation trading company, will be finalized to a certain extent, so I would like to make this report at the 15th meeting. I would also like to discuss the distribution at this 15th meeting. In addition, if there are further reports from each ministry, I would like you to discuss them here. After discussing the progress of the policies of each ministry and agency for the Roadmap 2025, I would like to ask you about the outline of the Roadmap 2026. We plan to present a draft of the Roadmap 2026 in early to mid-May, and finally decide on the Mobility Roadmap 2026 around June.

That's all.

Director Suzuki: Next, I would like to move on to Agenda 2. It is about the public call status of the autonomous driving society implementation precedent commercialization regional project.

Deputy Director-General Okada: As you can see in Document 3, as I mentioned earlier, the public call for the preliminary commercialization area has been open since the end of last year, and the deadline was last Friday. We will verify the selected area, but if you look at the third one, we would like to examine each application from these six aspects of the selection method. In terms of the plan, we are public call the areas to be commercialized by around fiscal 2027, and we would like to confirm the accuracy of the plan. Then, we will look at the system aspect to implement the plan, and the results for the areas where automated driving services have been demonstrated so far. Also, in terms of management, whether the management plan for commercialization is solid. Then, we would like to examine from the aspects of technology and finally social acceptance.

If you look at the next page, there were 39 applications at the closing stage. I mentioned three patterns earlier, but in Pattern 1, the so-called robotaku type, there were six applications. There were four cases where the operation area was expanded. There were 29 cases where technical issues were solved, so this is the balance.

As for the future schedule, the sub-working group, whose establishment was approved by this working group at the end of last year, will first conduct a review. After that, the results will be presented to the next working group around late February for a final decision. The results of the selection will be disclosed on the Digital Agency website around early March.

Director Suzuki: , this is the third item on the agenda. KPMG Consulting, an outsourcing company in Digital Agency, will explain the "Survey and Research on the Redesign of Mobility Services that Integrate Supply and Demand" as a whole. In addition, today, as a guest speaker, Mr. Koshiba of the SMART Fuku Lab will be invited to explain the initiatives of Kurobe City in Toyama. Thank you for your attention.

Mobility Working Group Secretariat Yamanaka: KPMG Consulting. Nice to meet you. After we explained agenda 1. "Types of Transportation Trading Company function / Definition of Roles" and 2. "Shiojiri City Demonstration Survey Plan Proposal", as a specific example of the initiatives of Transportation Trading Company function, we have invited SMART Fukushi Lab Koshiba, who you just introduced, as a guest speaker, so we would like to introduce the initiatives. After that, we will explain the roles required of Transportation Trading Company function and the proposed challenges to realize them, and then we will move on to the exchange of opinions.

First of all, I would like to explain the category and definition of roles of Transportation Trading Company function, which is Agenda 1. On page 4, this is the secretariat's proposal showing the category of Transportation Trading Company function. In taking charge of the category, the differences in the needs of Transportation Trading Company function are divided into three categories in this secretariat's proposal based on regional examples. Category 1 is mainly responsible for promoting the shift and optimisation of transportation modes. Category 2 is mainly responsible for promoting response to on-demand transportation. Category 3 is mainly responsible for promoting response to regional needs through transportation through mutual assistance, etc. On this page, from the perspective of making the category concept easy to understand, we have mapped the three categories based on population and population density, and provided it as the secretariat's proposal at this time. On the other hand, we recognize that this categorization and definition of roles are one of the important arrangements to break down Transportation Trading Company function and spread them in each area in the future, so we would like to brush up on them by receiving opinions from the members.

Page 5 is a table that summarizes the overview of the three types I mentioned earlier, challenges in rationalization, and the roles of function, a transportation trading company, based on case studies and other information. Type 1 summarizes the trends in which function, a transportation trading company, needs to reorganize local resources related to transportation, such as school buses and private transportation, and create travel demands in cooperation with non-transportation sectors. Type 2 summarizes the trends in which it is necessary to create travel demands in cooperation with non-transportation sectors and secure profits from non-transportation sectors such as advertising. Finally, Type 3 summarizes the trends in which it is necessary to prioritize health promotion and community revitalization through measures such as encouraging people to go out. Next, it summarizes the trends in which it is necessary to create travel demands and secure profits in cooperation with non-transportation sectors to ensure sustainability. I will repeat myself, but we will update the summary here as we conduct future research and analysis.

Next, I would like to explain the proposed demonstration plan for Agenda 2 Shiojiri. First of all, regarding Shiojiri City, in advancing this survey and research, it is extremely important to create a deliverable that can be understood by the local people as a transportation trading company function with specificity, and we, as contractors, believe so. To that end, we have selected Mr. Shiojiri City, Nagano, who agreed with the purpose of this survey and research, as the field for the demonstration this time, and I have been working with Mr. Shiojiri so that we can proceed with the survey and analysis of the necessary requirements for this transportation trading company function as closely as possible.

On page 7, the relationship when function, a transportation trading company, was established by Mr. Shiojiri City is shown as a model image for the future. As shown here, services, money, and other resources will be combined to realize a sustainable business model. In order to aim for this, both we and Mr. Shiojiri City are well aware that there are many hurdles to be cleared during our discussions. We will further consider these specific issues and the direction of our response together with Mr. Shiojiri City in the future.

On page 8, which is related to the previous page, function, a transportation trading company, has organized demand, supply, and resources. In particular, Shiojiri City is actively working on autonomous driving. In this survey and research, as one of the supply capabilities of function, a transportation trading company, to combine demand and supply, I think the way to cooperate with autonomous driving will be one of the key points, so I would like to consider it in the future based on that perspective.

Next is the third item on the agenda. As a specific example of function, a transportation trading company, Mr. Koshiba of SMART Fukushima Lab would like to introduce his initiatives. Mr. Koshiba, thank you very much.

SMART Fukushi Lab Koshiba: Thank you, . Now, although it will be a short time, I would like to explain. I am Koshiba of the General Incorporated Association SMART Fukushima Lab. Under the theme of creating regional mobility together, we will explain our efforts to create an operating entity in the community that will independently move forward with human development, mindsets, and so-called regional mobility. I have been working for 22 years at the Council of Social Welfare in Kurobe City, and now I have become independent of the General Incorporated Association SMART Fukushima Lab, a think tank, for four years.

Let me talk a little bit about the current welfare field. It has been said that the long-term care industry, especially long-term care demand, will peak around 2030, and it has been said that it will be very difficult to secure human resources. However, recently, it has been said that the peak of long-term care demand will be around 2040, and it has been pushed back by about a decade. If it continues to peak, there will be a shortage of long-term care personnel, and a situation where long-term care demand cannot be met is imminent. It has become a very important phase to prevent and increase the number of healthy elderly people. In order to receive welfare services, there are two patterns: home-visit services, visiting facilities such as day services, and moving into facilities. As you know now, the so-called in-home welfare services, which consists of visiting and picking up people at facilities, are very likely to be unprofitable, and it is difficult to secure human resources. The current situation is that these two are related to mobility, which involves moving to and picking up people, and the welfare field, which involves moving, is becoming extremely difficult.

It is said that there is a shortage of human resources, but the current situation in the field of social welfare is that social welfare human resources spend about 30% of their time on driving work such as pickup and drop-off. In addition, small bases and small service entities have been established one after another, which is good as a detailed service, but the current situation is that nursing care workers have to be engaged again in such things as preparing a car, buying a computer, and making a general function, and the labor force has been taken away. When we think about how to change these things, SMART Fukushi Lab will become a corporation that will play a central role. While promoting digital digital transformation in various social welfare fields, we are now focusing on regional mobility issues. While cooperating with various countries and private companies, the lab is taking on the challenge of creating various surveys, research, and businesses.

In 2021, Kurobe had a population of 40000, with an aging rate of 32%. At that time, there were 210 vehicles used for various social welfare services, including those for the disabled, nursing care, the elderly, young people, and childrearing. A survey showed that the annual maintenance cost was about 220 million, and that there were so many travel resources in social welfare services. The survey showed that cars were used only in the morning and evening, not during the day. We theoretically think that if we harness the power of digital technology to bundle and connect these, it would work, and we have conducted various experiments in 2021. We set up a project called the Cross Mobility Project, and if we could centralize the sharing and management of these 210 resources, it would be a business. It is difficult to hire drivers for an hour each in the morning and evening, so we wondered if we could create a service that would also share people. Based on the actual experimental results, we found that we could increase the number of people transported per trip and reduce the number of miles traveled. If we actually created a pickup and drop-off network in the form of a larger Mobility Network for Social Welfare, we thought that it would save a lot of labor and travel more efficiently. At that time, we decided to conduct experiments with various social welfare service providers in three cities and two towns around the area, beyond the framework of municipalities. We connected the pickup and drop-off networks by digitalization, and whether we could share pickup and drop-off services or load people who could not be picked up and dropped off. We also thought that we could incorporate measures to reduce the number of people in the future, such as inter-office collaboration, outsourcing the bundle to taxi companies, or automatic driving.

However, this project was abandoned because it could not be commercialized. The reason for this was that the smaller the corporation, the less cost-effective it would be to save, and the fact that there was no time to respond to such efforts in the field of social welfare. The other was the problem of who was in charge and who was the main body of the project. It is written in small letters, but I myself assumed that if this pickup and drop-off network was established, it could be used for regional transportation. However, from the perspective of the government, transportation operators, and the city as a whole, it would lead to a decrease in the number of users of existing public transportation, and although it was said that "this would be a little difficult," it was not realized easily.

In the midst of this, there was a major shift in perspective, and rather than focusing on the efficiency of consolidation and reduction, we thought about connecting current local resources and creating new services, and developed "Go Tre," a model that solves this regional issue in a hybrid way, which I will introduce today. While securing financial resources in the form of a prevention project using the financial resources of long-term care insurance for prevention of long-term care, we will realize all of these things together: prevention of long-term care by supporting the outings of local elderly people, revitalization of the local community, and utilization of public transportation. A typical day service is to pick up four or five people from their homes, bring them into a facility, and provide them with services. However, including those who come to the day service for light preventive nursing care, the entire community is made into a day service, with no buildings, no pick-up and drop-off vehicles, and no door-to-door pick-ups at home. This is a service that is well combined using the entire town. They pick up and drop off at a community center or other place where people gather once a week, and they use public transportation or taxis to pick up and drop off by the facility's car. And the places to go are not only the facilities but also various spots in the area. There, you can spend 3 hours freely to eat, walk and shop. The idea is that everything can be a training for care prevention. However, if we go on like this, we'll think it's just an outing tour, and we won't be able to use the financial resources for preventive long-term care. For preventive long-term care, we used wearables to collect data that shows you get exercise and get healthy by going out. In addition, in order to save staff labor, we created a nursing care prevention program while checking location information with wearable devices, managing safety, and collecting data. By effectively using this long-term care prevention financial resources, while promoting the elderly to go out, fare income will be paid to transportation operators as usual. As the money drops on public transportation, I get healthier and healthier by participating in something called "Go Tre." In addition, it has become a nursing care prevention, and we are creating a circulation of financial resources so that prevention financial resources can be invested again. While collecting data from various aspects, we also found out how many steps people walk when they go out for three hours, and that the number of steps tends to increase as they continue to go out. There is a paper on the medical cost reduction effect per step, and while collecting various data, there are various materials such as the results of a questionnaire survey on whether this training will change people's awareness of public transportation and make them use public transportation every day, so please take a look when you have time.

Recently, we have been working on verification test and other initiatives in various regions. According to the results of this year's survey in Maebashi, when elderly people actually go out, they do their own shopping and spend between 3,000 yen and 5,000 yen. Before and after the three hour service, we can see that it is also effective in the context of well-being, such as mental and social health, in addition to physical health, such as getting enough sleep and feeling higher after participating. We will make use of this data and other information to promote "Go Tre", and we are using the LWCI happiness index in Kurobe to verify whether such well-being improvements are being made.

In order to solve these regional issues, we believe that the key points are "simultaneous solutions," "sustainability," and "business entity." From a different perspective, when we create and expand such services, we have come to realize that we need to build a solid "foundation." I think this is the role of the business entity, or more like a transportation trading company, and we are trying to create new services by skillfully using digital and data. However, we need a more important "foundation." It is important to nurture the mindset of the community, the mindset of "Local mobility is created by everyone," and how to create people who move. We are developing programs to develop such human resources and build momentum, while accepting the model project of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism. It is almost certain that in local cities, the power of each person to move for their daily lives, such as public transportation and the power of private transportation, will gradually diminish. In this situation, we will need to create our own services, think about them, and move from the perspective of co-creation, which will fill the missing parts. In order to create this mobility, I believe that the following three things are important: "human development" (human resource development), "mindset" in which the government, not transportation operators, will be done by someone else, and "creation of an entity" in which who will do it.

Currently, based on the model project of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, we are promoting a program to nurture many people and community drivers who will accelerate the movement of this region by creating a program that firmly nurtures this human development, independence and consensus building, and creating a program that emphasizes people and processes rather than starting with so-called service development. Last year, the process of dialogue, investigation, visualization, implementation, and deployment was firmly programmed, and in Kurobe, people who took on the challenge for 2024, listened to the voices of many people, encouraged participation, increased interest, and worked together were nurtured. This year, once a month, about 30 people, including government officials, lawmakers, business operators, citizens, the elderly, and various other people, voluntarily gather to launch a project to find out what kind of problems they can solve by themselves. They set up a small verification test and verify it by themselves. This is a microproject before the project, a small verification test, and we are all working on it. Just last week, we had this briefing session, and in particular, the middle one, "Dekakeru Rail x Tasukeai Kotsu," is a combination of "Dekakeru Rail" and "Tasukeai Kotsu." In response to the issue of nursing care services, which are difficult to pick up and drop off, and are too far away to pick up and drop off, if we make good use of local railways to pick up and drop off, the time to pick up and drop off will be shortened, and taking the train itself may be a rehabilitation training. We conducted a small experiment to see if this could be done. The experiment produced good results, and we are now ready to take it to the next step as a project for the next fiscal year. This place, which we call "MobiLAB @ Kurobe Base," where we gather once a month, is a place where we encourage the mindset of the community, the mindset of "We all make the community move together." It is also a place for human resource development and discovery where we ourselves take the lead, and where we all think about how to germinate the seeds for creating various mechanisms, services, and systems. The Community Driver Project is a program to build a relationship of mutual trust in the community and build a team in the community. Mutual trust in the local community will be built, and people will be able to think and create a community together. On this basis, various services and human resources will be created. Without this, I think that businesses will not be implemented in the region if services are prioritized.

In fiscal 2026 and the next fiscal year, we will firmly create a regional business entity, something like a regional mobility company, in cooperation with various companies, and we are trying to create such a business entity. This is not just about bundling demand and bundling supply, but also bundling and combining them to supply new services like "Go Tre." We are thinking of creating and providing new services, not just this "bundling" matching. However, we are not just providing this transportation service, but also developing human resources, which takes time and money, and creating opportunities for everyone to think about solving problems. We must also conduct research for that. However, we are preparing to create a so-called regional mobility company or a regional transportation trading company in Kurobe, which will have all the necessary services and businesses to make profits, and will play this role while having both profit and non-profit, just like a zebra company.

That's all for Mr. Kurobe's report.

Mobility Working Group Secretariat Yamanaka: Yes, Mr. Koshiba, thank you for your valuable explanation. Next is the fourth item on the agenda. I would like to explain the roles expected of function, a transportation trading company, and the challenges we face in realizing them.

Pages 11, 12, and 2 are connected to this table, which organizes the roles expected of Transportation Trading Company function by category. On page 11, the secretariat's draft shows the roles for each category of the ideal image, system, understanding of the current status of regional traffic conditions, and ideal plan of transportation trading companies. It is organized that the required roles differ for each category of Transportation Trading Company function, but it is not necessarily a rigid one. In other words, I believe that the roles will be flexibly set within the category according to the detailed regional characteristics and the status and characteristics of the players.

On page 12, this is also a table that organizes the roles of service design and effect verification. In particular, regarding the service design part, as I explained at the beginning, in order to respond to the needs behind each categorization, we will develop a mechanism that can realize these services in each category. Type 1 is mobility services that can lead to profits in non-transportation fields, Type 2 is mobility service design that maximizes demand for transportation, and Type 3 is service design that includes transportation through mutual assistance. In other words, I understand that this is a key part of the sustainable operation of function, a transportation trading company. I would like to further consider developing such a mechanism in the future.

Page 13. This is the area where we are conducting in-depth surveys, such as interviews, to advance this survey and research. We will not limit ourselves to desk-based surveys, but will also analyze the results by actually listening to the voices of people in each area. In addition, we have selected multiple areas to cover each of Types 1, 2, and 3 shown in the beginning. Type 1 is the Keihanna area in Kyoto, Echizen City in Fukui, and Shiojiri City in Nagano. For types 2 and 3, we are conducting in-depth surveys in the areas shown in these materials. Again, we will reflect the specific voices of people in the final deliverables.

On page 14, based on the organization described above, for each category, there is a table that summarizes the challenges to realize function as a transportation trading company. It shows the current main challenges for each item such as organizational structure, business model, and data and digital tools. On the other hand, for the categories I mentioned earlier and the definition of regional roles of transportation trading companies, we will further brush up in the future study and survey project. We will finally break down specific challenges and analyze them, so that effective measures to overcome the challenges will be organized in detail and presented in the deliverables. As a result, I hope that it will help people in each function who see the deliverables implement function as a transportation trading company, so I would like to factor the challenges written here in detail and organize the measures to overcome the true causes in detail in the future survey project.

With this, I would like to briefly explain the details of the survey project. After this, we will have time to exchange opinions, so I would like to hear your opinions mainly on the points shown on page 16. The first is the type of traffic trading company function shown at the beginning, and how to develop function. The second is the challenges in introducing traffic trading company function. The third is how to solve these challenges in introducing traffic trading company function. I would like to hear your valuable opinions. That's all from the secretariat. Thank you.

Director Suzuki: Thank you very much. Now, I would like to move on to the exchange of opinions. I would like to receive opinions from those present, but first of all, I would like to ask the fundamental members.

Mr. Nemoto: Thank you, Mr. . I am Nemoto, and I have been invited to participate from today. I am studying distribution. I would like to see self-driving trucks included in the roadmap. Traffic trading company function, which is being discussed today, is rather expecting buses and taxis. Self-driving trucks have already been commercialized in the U.S. and China since last year, and various business models are competing now. We need to pay attention to what kind of business model is most likely to take root. Among them, there are three business models: capacity-as-a-service, transportation-as-a-service, and driver-as-a-service. Capacity-as-a-service is a model in which self-driving software companies own self-driving trucks and provide self-driving software and self-driving kits, as well as remote monitoring, without the need for existing distribution companies. Driver-as-a-service is a model in which distribution companies own self-driving trucks, provide self-driving software and self-driving kits, and perform remote monitoring, etc., with self-driving software companies. Transportation-as-a-service is an intermediate form between them. Self-driving trucks are owned by self-driving software companies or OEMs, but the model was that the transportation of main lines is entrusted, and the distribution companies are responsible for dealing with shippers and transportation. Including this, there will be opportunities to discuss distribution from next time onwards, so I would be happy if I could contribute even a little. That's all from me.

Director Suzuki: , thank you very much. Is there anyone who would like to speak? Mr. Okamoto, thank you very much.

Okamoto: I am Okamoto of TEPCO Power Grid . I will speak first because I have a schedule after this. Thank you for your explanation. I basically have no objection to the way this fiscal year will proceed. At the beginning, there were three types, and I thought the types were the same. Among them, you mentioned types (1), (2), and (3), but in the end, the less densely populated areas are, the more difficult it is to establish them, and I thought the challenge was what to do about them. Today, I had a talk with SMART Fukushi Labo, and I thought there were very hints there. Among the several talks, what I thought was very important was that it would be difficult unless we first think about the whole and solve it simultaneously. In the talk, it was difficult to improve the B/C (cost effectiveness) for small businesses, so there was a perspective of making use of what is available in the entire area. You said that you would promote the effects quantitatively in a data-driven manner, so basically, I think we can see a lot of hints for solving issues in the types raised this time in the efforts of SMART Fukushi Labo, and I hope we can make more use of this knowledge.

I would like to say two more things. This time, the field of logistics will be added to the agenda. As the basic members of the panel have mentioned, I think it would be better to consider logistics and human flows without separating them. Of course, there are differences depending on whether it is a truck or a microbus for transportation, but if you think about it carefully, there are some parts that are not so, and I think that there are parts where the same platform can be used. In addition, in the case of SMART Fukushi Labo, which I mentioned earlier, a base for distribution and movement of people could be a community center, but Mr. Digital Agency is also working on a digital community center, and when we think about how to make the current building or place a base, it will actually be a base for distribution and movement of people, and people will gather there. When considering how to create such a hub, I think it would be better to consider logistics and human flow together. In addition, I thought that it would be from the perspective of how to make good use of what we have now, while also using digitalization. The other point is that we will see a hierarchical structure of networks and so on, and in short, there will be issues of close bases, the last one mile to the final destination, transportation between bases, and long-distance travel. For example, for energy-related business operators, we basically think in terms of the current hierarchical structure, and services and facilities are all structured in this way, and I think other telecommunications carriers are the same. The hierarchical structure of the existing infrastructure business operators, and the logistics and human flow bases I just mentioned, will actually be linked to the idea of hierarchically networking them. From the perspective of using what we have now, I thought it would be good for you to think together about how you think about the connection with the existing infrastructure business. It's been a long time, but that's all from me. Thank you very much.

Director Suzuki: Thank you very much. Both members, thank you very much for summarizing it in about 4 minutes. I am very sorry, but it would be very helpful if committee members could summarize it in about 4 minutes. Then, are there any other opinions? Member Ishida, may I start first?

Ishida: Regarding the example of Shiojiri City on page 8 of . From this time, I thought it was very good that we had the participation of fundamental members and made distribution a very important theme to consider. As Mr. Okamoto said, I thought it was very important to think about distribution and human flow together in a sense. I think that would also contribute very much to the further effective utilization of mobility resources in the region.

If that is the case, I am sorry to give you a specific name, but one of the most important matters is how to cooperate with Japan Post. Under the Postal Act, Japan Post is obliged to deliver parcels to single houses all over the country, so we cannot stop it. In addition, there are many post offices, and I have heard that Japan Post is also considering how to make use of them as bases. Another matter is how to make use of convenience stores or something similar. According to a recent survey by the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, the number of people who do not have sufficient mobility services for grocery shopping is approaching 10 million, and living in the community is one of the very important objectives of the Mobility Roadmap. Therefore, I think it is important to consider a system that effectively utilizes existing resources.

The second point is a population category created by the secretariat. I think it will be something like this, but when I look at various places that are doing various things such as mobility services and health issues, I feel that there is a ceiling of about 10,000 people. If it is more than that, the community becomes larger and does not spread. Or, the city hall says so, but there are many examples where it does not go well in the field. I think it is appropriate to divide by population size, but I would like you to fully consider the hierarchy within it. As function, a transportation trading company, has not properly discussed the hierarchy, the contribution of the administration, and the ideal way of cooperation and collaboration, I think it is important to consider these matters. For the third point, Mr. Koshiba, thank you for explaining such a wonderful initiative. I would like to expand it a little more, and although the resources for long-term care services and long-term care insurance are large, I think that the population approach, which is about how to have people return in good health at the frame stage before reaching that point, is more important for the roles and effects of mobility. I have heard about how to expand it and how to set a frame for it, and it is a wonderful initiative, but his opinion is that how about making it even more ambitious? Thank you very much.

Director Suzuki: , thank you very much. Thank you for waiting, Mr. Hoshi, please take care of it.

Hoshi, Manager of Mobility Service Promotion Division (MLIT): , Thank you very much. I am very grateful that I have been able to join you today as well as all of you related to me and the members of the expert group. Today, during various talks, Mr. Koshiba of the SMART Fukushi Lab and the members of the group talked about various things, so I would like to talk a little bit in order to share understanding with the people concerned.

We supported SMART Fukushi Labo's initiatives with the budget related to the initial transportation vacuum. I am not sure if you are aware of this, but we are currently promoting policies together with the Health and Welfare Bureau for the Elderly and the Health Policy Bureau on legal amendments and development of guidelines to promote Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare's new regional medical system concept, as well as various informal service and formal service collaborations that have been promoted under integrated community care. The kind of thing you introduced is an initiative of a regional medical coordination promotion corporation that is being promoted by the Health Policy Bureau. For example, in Shiga prefecture, for example, 137 medical and nursing care corporations are jointly promoting it. After actually doing it, we are keenly aware that matching supply and demand digitally alone will not solve the problem. We also need to promote our regional policies in an integrated manner with various new legal frameworks and initiatives to change the way of medical care and nursing care in order to solve problems before they become severe or to create environments that allow people to live in the area for a long time with healthy longevity, as mentioned by Mr. Ishida, a member of the organization. These are not the traffic trading companies this time, but in the context of the transportation vacuum, we are now working with the relevant ministries and agencies in the context of the transportation vacuum, assuming the revision of the relevant laws and regulations. I would be very grateful if Mr. Koshiba would pay attention to the status of the promotion of such policies and proceed with further initiatives while consulting with us. I will continue to support such initiatives in the context of the transportation vacuum, and I would like to ask for your continued support. That is all from me.

Director Suzuki: , thank you very much. Then, Member Wakana, please start.

Mr. Wakana: Thank you very much, . First of all, I would like to ask Mr. Koshiba a question. After that, can I share my thoughts with you? I think this is a wonderful example. What we are discussing now is function, a transportation trading company. If we try to do it on-site, I think the same thing will probably happen. One of them is, where resources are lacking, we have not only supplemented what we have been working on this time, or created a new service function. For example, where there are no more taxis or buses, have there been any effects that your efforts have been able to supplement?

SMART Fukushi Lab Koshiba: Thank you, . To be honest, when we want to create a service like Go TRE, we don't have to use existing taxi companies or railways. Instead, we can use vacant nursing care vehicles. However, if we do this, public transportation will not be used and taxi companies' profits will decrease. We use taxis first in priority order. We call it mobility training, which includes how to ride a taxi and how to ride a train. The so-called target people are from the age of 75, and now they are 92 years old. They are healthy people and people in the field of nursing care prevention, so we are using it to train them to ride it. When "Go TRE" expands more and more, when taxi companies can no longer prepare two jumbo taxis, we will use the available Hiace for nursing care. No, if we want to go to a Unazuki Hot Spring 20 kilometers away, we will take the train if it is full. If there are no taxis available, this is an important step.

Mr. Wakana: Thank you very much, . In that case, we can complement each other, or rather, we can combine the resources that are currently operating in non-profit areas in this way. This is my impression or comment on function, a transportation trading company. It is a category that Mr. Ishida mentioned earlier, but I have divided it by population. Based on what you have told me, when we think about the expected effects on the ground, we should consider the type of resources, and whether or not there are buses, railways, and taxis in the transportation industry, since there are some parts that must be prioritized. I wonder if there is any misunderstanding if I write this population plus the presence or absence of resources. I wonder if writing this category is not simply about population. I wonder if writing it like a category of issues is better. In addition, I really strongly agree with function, a transportation trading company, and SMART Fukushi Labo, who mentioned earlier. It is a little difficult to do something with this combination when it comes down to the ground. If there is no part that creates new value, and if there is no part that is non-profit to some extent and does not increase profit, I think it will be difficult to connect. In the beginning, it says "value creation," but I think that function, a transportation trading company, will not be able to do well unless I give it a little more importance and list it as an essential requirement. Then, I wonder how to create that value. If we do not include not only data sharing but also human resource development, it will be difficult to implement it. As SMART Fukushi Labo also mentioned, I think it is necessary to include the step of expanding from small to large in the future. That is all.

Director Suzuki: Thank you very much. Are there any other opinions?

Hidaka: Thank you very much. I think there were quite a lot of discussions, but considering that I participated in the meeting last year regarding traffic trading companies and that the discussion was premised on the new technology of autonomous driving, I would like to add a little essence to the secretariat's proposal. Transportation itself is a scale industry, and economies of scale can be obtained easily. There are a certain number of people, quantity, and frequency, and relatively large fixed costs, such as large cars and railways, can be built to make it faster. So, even in demand transportation, it is said in all research on demand transportation overseas that it is not economical to have a certain amount, three or four cars, but about 100 cars, and discussions on how to break out of this framework are being held in autonomous driving and traffic trading companies. As Mr. Wakana mentioned, it would be difficult to classify based on population. How can we break away from the conventional way of transportation in which many people have to travel in large numbers, such as through integration, collaboration, and utilization of external organizations, as is being done by digitalization and MLIT? If the current situation continues, local governments will have no choice but to compensate for deficits. What role will the transportation trading companies play in this situation? By collaborating with Japan Post, which you mentioned, we can build a service while keeping the cost the same. There are various ways, such as Mr. Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry's re-design and co-creation project, and various types of industry collaborations. By doing these things one by one as a transportation trading company, we can get out of economies of scale. I think that transportation is a public tax, so it will have more effects than the users can pay and balance, and it will be related to medical care, welfare, employment, etc. I think it would be wonderful if the transportation trading companies could do it without covering it with taxes. I believe that automated driving will contribute to that in some way, so I would be grateful if you could include that as an essence. That's all.

Director Suzuki: Thank you very much. Next, Member Yamamoto, please.

Mr. Yamamoto: I am attending the meeting as chairman of ITS Japan. Thanks for your help. Regarding transportation trading companies, there was a bit of conversation at the briefing of the materials prior to the meeting, but the material prepared by the secretariat on page 8 is very easy to understand, and I think it gives an overview of function as a transportation trading company. However, if you look closely at this diagram, there are already several so-called mobility-related companies in the function. For example, general trading companies have established subsidiaries as new businesses, and telecommunications carriers, such as NTT, Softbank, and KDDI, have also established subsidiaries for their involvement in mobility as an extension of their contributions to social infrastructure. Also, there are many companies that are like startups, and when the word MaaS spreads more and more, local governments and various mobility-related companies are doing verification test. When discussing what to do about traffic trading companies, I think it would be useful to make use of the experience of people from such companies who are doing it ahead of others. I would like to say that it would be better to have more opportunities to gather information and share learning in order to give concrete shape to what traffic trading companies should be in the future. In addition, I think that the role of traffic trading companies is expected to be something like cooperation between local governments. There is a tendency for information to be difficult to share, so I feel that transport trading companies also have a role to play in sharing activities being conducted in various places throughout Japan and having each local government learn from that as common wisdom. Lastly, although it is not directly related to transportation trading companies, I think that in order to develop mobility itself, in addition to function, a transportation trading company, what is important is how to develop the infrastructure, which I think we should not leak out. Autonomous driving is being promoted in various areas, and candidates for advanced commercialization areas are also being considered. However, it is not just a matter of where and how to run autonomous driving, but also what kind of social infrastructures, especially transportation infrastructures and ITS infrastructures, need to be built, and for what purpose and with what expected effects. This is a serious issue for verification test. One example is smart poles and smart bus stops, and I think there is a need for both the creation of social infrastructure and the role of transportation trading companies. I thought it would be good if you could summarize it from this point of view, so I made a statement. That's all.

Director Suzuki: Thank you very much. Are there any other opinions? Member Muramatsu, please.

Member Muramatsu: The first point is, on page 8 of this document 4, I think it is necessary to prioritize in the end. I think this kind of thing is to expand the topic and close it repeatedly, but among them, there are cases where it is not cost-effective, and although it produces great effects, it costs a lot of money to take the first step, so it can't be done until more information is collected. So, at this point, I understand that it is a phase of expanding it greatly and trying various things. In the future, I think it will be necessary to narrow it down to what makes a good sense and then dig deeper into the project. Regarding the second point, it is a general statement, but it was stated that we should finally sort out the issues, but I think it is meaningless unless we sort out the solutions after sorting out the issues. For example, in the 10 areas selected as demonstration areas in the future, if we put together solutions such as saying that this is a fairly winning idea and that this is fairly cost-effective, I think it will be easier for other local governments to use it horizontally. In particular, as SMART Fukushi Lab explained, I think it is know-how for actual horizontal deployment to local governments to make good use of existing players and frameworks and rearrange them. In the end, it is assumed that there will be a lot of backlash if we suddenly say that it is automatic driving. I think it will be easier to succeed if we first look at how local people really think about it and how they want to work, and create such a group and system from the bottom up rather than the top down, and I think we can expand it horizontally. That is all.

Director Suzuki: Thank you and any other comments?

Prof. Suda: I am Prof. Suda from Tokyo University of Technology, . Nice to meet you. I would like to comment after hearing your story. First of all, I would like to talk about types. Population is the easiest to understand, so I think it is understandable that it can be classified based on that. However, other than population, natural environments, geographical features, and climate are also very important, and it is the characteristics of the area. I think it will change considerably depending on what industries are there. Mr. Shiojiri City, I have visited you many times to listen to your story, and I have been working on it from the perspective of promoting industry, and I wonder if it is working well. I think it is very important what the local issues are. Earlier, I heard Mr. Koshiba's story about considering public transportation, and at that time, how well public transportation is developed will be involved. I think it is really a place where there are only taxis, whether there are proper railways, whether there are competing bus companies, whether there is only one bus company, and so on. I think these things have a lot of influence. It is a cliched story, but in the end, I think it is about how to create an ecosystem. Business operators are also involved, and I think it is necessary to have a perspective on how to create a win-win relationship with people other than transportation operators. That is all I have commented on.

Director Suzuki: Thank you very much. Member Suzuki, please.

Prof. Suzuki: Thank you, Mr. . I am Prof. Suzuki, a project professor at the University of Tokyo and a representative of JUTM, which is engaged in activities related to drone operation management. I believe that the fact that distribution is currently facing similar issues in rural areas is as I mentioned earlier. Various initiatives are being taken, such as cargo-passenger consolidation, joint delivery, and delivery using drones, so I would like you to consider what kind of relationship we can have with each other and whether we can cooperate when considering this transportation trading company. Another thing is, when we think about so-called implementation, how to divide responsibilities is an important perspective, and various stakeholders will be involved, so if we do not consider contracts and responsibilities at the same time, it will not lead to social implementation by function alone. I would like you to include in the plan at what stage such considerations will be made. Another point is that this form is the only one in places where there is almost no regular public transportation, but when it comes to urban areas, there are places where public transportation is function, so if we do not combine these with new mobility to make it convenient for users, it will be inconvenient. I live in Bunkyo Ward, and there are community buses and metropolitan buses, but I feel that there are also challenges in terms of cooperation between the two. I would like you to consider these issues. That is all.

Director Suzuki: Thank you very much. Are there any other opinions? Well then, Mr. Hatano, please.

Member Hatano: Thank you very much. I am Hatano of the JAMA. I understand that the JAMA is not in a position to comment clearly as an automobile manufacturer in function, a transportation trading company. From the perspective of the technology that supports it, we are working on various issues, including autonomous driving, so I would like to comment although it is close to my impression.

First of all, as member Suda mentioned earlier, it is easy to understand that the current success cases of each local government are organized based on population density and population size expressed in P4. However, since both are population and population density, I think it is not possible to clearly extract factors such as correlation and the reason for this. When we think about mobility in practice, in terms of population, the area or scale of the service area and the number of people involved in it, such as the number of nearby residents. If there is such a relationship between the area and the population, we can find a correlation and find out what factors have led to the success cases. However, since there are no such places, I am very concerned that we have not been able to grasp the causes of areas where service can be continued and areas where it cannot be. I think it is important to have a clear understanding of the relationship between the ODD and the customers who receive the services related to the ODD in order to solve the problem. In terms of this point, based on the current pattern, the secretariat has clearly organized the pending issues and problems and compiled them in the form of hypothetical solutions and the direction of solutions. However, if I am to say this without fear of misunderstanding, I believe that we are still at what we want to be and that we have not been able to see any concrete solutions or plans for their implementation. I think it is difficult for Transportation Trading Company function to feel that it can make a living if it can continue to provide services in a sustainable manner, so I would like you to consider this point. This time, with SMART Fukushi Lab Koshiba's proposal, as one major approach to solving the cause, we will create new demands. In other words, we have not noticed it so far, but with a new approach, how can we guide customers who have not been using it to mobility and increase their use? I think this is an extremely excellent idea, and in order to be able to do so, I would like to have discussions in the future on various aspects of monetization from the perspective of securing financial resources, as well as how to specifically utilize data infrastructure and digital utilization. In order to actually move this organization, in order to run the project, the ability to execute is necessary, so how do you acquire human resources? And the most important thing is to create a place for feedback on how our customers actually feel about the service and how they would like it to be improved. While taking these points into consideration, I would like to see the creation of new opportunities that can be developed in wider regions.

Director Suzuki: , thank you very much. Member Koda, please.

Member Koda: . On page 11 from the secretariat, there is a section on mutual support for the establishment of mobility services in accordance with population size. For example, Yokohama City has a population of more than 100,000, and although there are currently enough buses as a mobility service, for example, when a pregnant mother is carrying her child to go shopping, her life is inconvenient with existing mobility services alone. In such cases, support from the local community is necessary, so rather than necessarily dividing the population vertically, I thought that how to combine mobility according to the target audience is a very important perspective from the perspective of consumer demand. That's all.

Director Suzuki: Thank you very much. I think I have now received the opinions of each committee member. Then, although I am absent, I have received the opinion of Mr. Saito, a member of the committee, so I will read it on behalf of him. Regarding Document 4, it is a good approach to classify the function of transportation trading companies by population size, classify them, and consider the division of roles. In doing so, it is good to standardize the Architecture by assuming the number of regions for each type and preparing policies and concepts for realization means (microservices, SaaS, etc.). By doing so, operations will be standardized and contribute to reasonable spread. In addition, when transportation trading companies collaborate with different industries (retail, food and drink on page 7 of Document 4, etc.), if interfaces such as supply and demand information and the type of information collaboration are defined, it will be possible to avoid individual designs when various services expand, which will also contribute to reasonable spread. Thank you.

I believe various opinions were expressed today as well, so if Director-General Miura from Digital Agency has any comments, please share with us.

MIURA Director-General: Thank you very much for your time today. I believe there was an extremely wide-ranging discussion. First of all, as I said at the beginning, I feel that everyone pointed out that it was extremely significant to take up the issue of logistics. I would like to work on it firmly from now on.

On top of that, today, while we and the outsourcing business operators were sorting out the traffic trading companies for the time being, we received many suggestions, including future issues. I would like to thank you for giving us a perspective that is extremely meaningful and that must be utilized in future considerations. We have received opinions that we will take seriously, sort them out, and reflect them in Shiojiri's initiatives in the future, and we hope to utilize the knowledge we have received.

Although I was not able to attend today, Mr. Mori pointed out, for example, that we should take a close look at the initiatives of the heads of local governments, and I would like to ask you to discuss the results at the meeting to announce them again. Thank you very much for your time today.

Director Suzuki: , a member of the Committee, would like to make one more statement. Thank you very much.

Ishida: Regarding the example of Shiojiri City on page 8 of Document 4, which has been mentioned in the past, I think it is very well done as a municipality. I think it has a broad perspective and various points are properly considered. However, I felt that if we were to think as a country, we had to further develop it from both a "big perspective" and a "small perspective".

From a broad perspective, when people and freight are handled together, what should be done about the barriers to the Road Transportation Law and the Freight Transportation Law, and what should be done about the traffic licensing system? Or, as Director Hoshi pointed out, I think it would be good to advance discussions in a slightly larger framework, such as working in cooperation with the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare.

On the other hand, from a perspective closer to the field, as someone pointed out, there are some successful examples among the actual cases, but there is a common major concern that they do not scale. I thought that a major role of this mobility working is to organize a story about what we will learn and how we will connect it to the large-frame discussion I mentioned earlier. I hope you will consider it. Thank you very much.

Director Suzuki: , thank you very much. Now that we are out of time, I would like to end today's discussion. Mr. Chief Uno, would you like to summarize the working group?

Chief Uno: , Thank you very much for your active opinions today. I think it was a very useful discussion. My impression as Chief is that the purpose of this discussion is exactly what the members of Hidaka pointed out. Since this is a working group that has been discussing autonomous driving from the beginning, the purpose of the discussion is that there are parts that are not realized by the existing public transportation. Although it may depend on regional characteristics and individual attributes, the biggest challenge is probably what to do when there is no scale, which member Ishida summarized at the end. I think we should focus on discussing what the secretariat is discussing, such as autonomous driving, how to use new technologies, and how to create new demand. I felt that if we do not always think about it, the discussion may diverge and we will not know what we are doing. At that time, several members pointed out that we cannot analyze the factors only with population and population density. I think they pointed out that it is important to consider the area characteristics, how the public transportation is in the area, and the attributes of the users, or that we cannot analyze the factors of why successful cases are created and why they are failing.

Next, I brought up the subject of distribution this time, and I think that everyone took it favorably, and among them, I also received an important opinion that it is not necessary to separate the flow of people and distribution, and on the contrary, it is better to consider them together. In addition, as several members pointed out, rather than developing new facilities, we should make good use of existing facilities. I think that how to involve existing entities such as Japan Post and convenience stores will give us a hint to think about in the future.

Finally, as several members pointed out the user's perspective, I thought it was necessary to fully consider the user's needs.

I am here today, and in summary, I believe that these are the perspectives pointed out by quite a few members. Based on these, I would like to proceed with future discussions. I would like the secretariat to collect the information necessary for that and organize the issues necessary for consideration. It is necessary to compile the Mobility Roadmap 2026 in June, so I would like you to continue your discussions and reflect them in the policy. Thank you very much for your time today.

Director Suzuki: This concludes the 13th Working Group on Mobility. Thank you very much for your time today.

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