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Mobility Working Group (14th)

Last Updated:

Overview

Date and

Tuesday, February 24, 2026, from 11:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.

US>

On-line

Agenda

  • 1. Opening
  • 2. Agenda
    • (1) Adoption of pilot project areas
      • Areas selected for pioneering commercialization
      • Exchange of views
    • (2) Reports from the Ministries and Agencies
      • "Initiatives by the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism to Realize a Society with Automated Driving" (Logistics and Motor Vehicles Bureau
      • Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications's Efforts on Communication Infrastructure Supporting Autonomous Driving (Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications Telecommunications Bureau)
      • Exchange of views
  • 3) Closing

Material

Minutes

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for We will now begin the 14th meeting of the Mobility Working Group. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to attend the Working Group today. I am YAMAGATA from the secretariat, and I will serve as the chairperson today. Nice to meet you. First of all, I would like to inform you that today's meeting will be held online and in a hybrid format. I would like to ask all members to keep their cameras on during the meeting and to unmute their microphones when speaking. If someone else is speaking, please mute your microphone. In addition, I would like to ask the audience to turn off both the camera and microphone. Please understand that we will be recording the meeting in order to share it within the secretariat and to prepare the minutes.

Next, I would like to confirm the documents. As stated in the agenda that was sent in advance, as soon as the agenda is sent, it will be Documents 1-4, List of Attendees. If there is anything missing, please contact the Teams chat function or the secretariat by e-mail. Due to time constraints, I would like to replace the introduction of today's attendees with the distribution of the list of attendees in front of you.

Today, I am pleased to have Mr. Imaeda State Minister for Digital Transformation, Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister for Foreign Affairs of Japan, attend the meeting at the outset. Prior to the opening of the working group, Mr. Imaeda State Minister for Digital Transformation, Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister for Foreign Affairs of Japan, would like to extend his greetings to all of you. I would like to begin by welcoming Mr. Imaeda

Senior Vice-Minister Imaeda: Hello, everyone in . Thank you very much for taking the time out of your busy schedules to gather here today. I am IMAEDA Soichiro of State Minister for Digital Transformation. As the 14th Mobility Working Group, I would like to express my sincere respect for your efforts. First of all, I would like to express my gratitude to all members for discussing the commercialization of technologies that support regional and mobility, such as autonomous driving. As you know, autonomous driving is extremely effective and essential for Japan to overcome Japan's serious problems of mobility, such as the declining birthrate and aging population, and to realize a safe and secure automobile traffic society. Around the world, services utilizing autonomous driving technology have been commercialized and are making great progress. On the other hand, in Japan, preparations for the commercialization of robotak have begun in urban areas, but in many areas, it is not yet beyond the verification test, rather than being commercialized. For this reason, based on the Prime Minister's instructions at the Digital Administrative and Fiscal Reform Council, the government is intensively promoting initiatives and working on the Pilot Commercialization Area Project to accelerate the commercialization of services utilizing autonomous driving technology. I believe that this initiative will play an extremely important part in establishing the commercialization of autonomous driving in local areas and expanding it nationwide, and I would be grateful if you could have a lively discussion today on the selected areas. The government will continue to work as one to accelerate the social implementation of autonomous driving in Japan, and I would like to thank you for your support.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for , State Minister for Foreign Affairs, Thank you very much. Mr. Imaeda, State Minister for Foreign Affairs, is leaving here on official business. Thank you very much. Now, in opening the working group, Mr. Chief Uno will give remarks.

Chief Uno: , good morning. As State Minister for Foreign Affairs has just mentioned what is expected of the Mobility Working Group, I would like to just talk about what we will be doing today. First of all, we would like to decide on the preliminary commercialization areas at this meeting. The sub-working group has already conducted a review, and we have narrowed down to 13 out of 39 areas. We would like you to discuss this and make a final decision. I have heard that there were various discussions at the sub-working group, so I would like you to talk again based on these aspects. Also, today, the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism and Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications will talk about their respective initiatives for autonomous driving, so I would like to receive guidance on various points. As State Minister Imaeda mentioned earlier, advancing autonomous driving will be an extremely important tool for solving various regional and logistical issues, so I would like to have frank discussions with you. I look forward to working with you today.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Thank you very much. Today, we have two agenda items, the adoption of preliminary commercialization areas and reports from each ministry and agency. This time, we would like to receive opinions on each agenda item. Then, let's move on to the agenda.

Mr. Director Suzuki of Digital Agency will explain the regions selected as the pilot project regions.

Director Suzuki: This is Digital Agency Advanced Commercialization Area. Please refer to Document 2.

On page 2, I would like to review what I have said before. This time, I would like to talk about the outline of the pilot commercialization area program for autonomous driving society implementation. As you mentioned in your opening remarks, the robotak (robot taxi) business is advancing overseas, but in Japan, there are still many areas that are limited to verification test. Under such circumstances, the Mobility Roadmap 2025, which was discussed last year, has positioned pilot commercialization areas as an initiative. The Digital Administrative and Fiscal Reform Council has also positioned the selection of pilot commercialization areas in its compilation, and this time, it will be discussed by the Mobility Working Group. To be specific, we would like to build a business model that will be able to continue the project over a wide area, not just for the demonstration of Lv4 self-driving buses and taxis, and various policies are being taken by each ministry. To select areas to concentrate them, we have been discussing about 10 locations to be selected. The purpose of the pilot commercialization is to implement it in society and commercialize it as soon as possible.

In particular, we have made a public call of the regions where we will carry out the following initiatives. The key point is that we will continue to "commercialize automated driving services in advance by around fiscal 2027 and provide them on an ongoing basis." The other point is that we will "commercialize automated driving services and then make them suitable for horizontal development in other regions," and expand them nationwide after intensive investment and commercialization.

Three specific patterns are shown. The first is to utilize the latest technology, and basically, in the form of moving at arbitrary points such as taxis, we define that autonomous driving will satisfy travel demands that we have to endure due to a shortage of drivers. The second is to expand the operation area, and by expanding the vehicles operated by Lv4 to other routes and regions within the municipality, we will solve cost issues through economies of scale, etc. The third is to solve technical issues, and aim to operate Lv4 by replacing existing route buses with autonomous driving. These patterns are shown as examples of collaboration.

Please refer to page 3. For this, we announced the public call Guidelines at the end of last year and started accepting applications early this New Year. As stated in the status of applications by pattern, a total of 39 applications have been received, including 6 applications for (1), 4 applications for (2), and 29 applications for (3). After being selected by the Mobility Working Group today, the government will announce the regions for the pilot project by early March. Then, from April, we will start the support in the new fiscal year. As for the content of the support, as shown in the upper left of the document, one is "priority implementation of autonomous driving related measures under the jurisdiction of relevant ministries and agencies, etc." and the other is "establishment of a companion support system."

Please refer to the next page. As for how to evaluate and screen the applications, as I mentioned before, we will build a model project "model," and we will screen it based on six points. The first point is planning, the second point is system, the third point is performance, the fourth point is management, the fifth point is technology, and the sixth point is social acceptance. Among them, the parts in bold are essential items, which must be met in the description of the application, and other items and the content of the proposals will be evaluated comprehensively. The secretariat is conducting a formal review from the perspective of whether the essential points are met properly and whether the other items are described, including concreteness and grounds. Based on that, we received discussions from experts at the sub-working group last week.

The result is shown on page 5. A total of 39 applications were received, and the sub-working discussed how to select a total of 13 applications based on the initial assumption of about 10 applications, including (1) 3 out of 6 applications for the latest technology utilization type, (2) 2 out of 4 applications for the operation area expansion type, (3) 8 out of 29 applications for the technical problem solving type.

Please refer to page 6 for the overall summary comments. It was an extremely reasonable plan with explanations based on specific numerical values, achievements, and qualifications, etc., such as ingenuity to constantly operate the autonomous driving project and important income and expenditure plans. In addition, the implementation system and the commitment of the participants were sufficient, and the feasibility of the project was highly evaluated. In addition, compared to other application regions, the horizontal development potential was relatively highly evaluated, but the absolute evaluation tended to be low. We received the results of the discussion that Digital Agency should provide solid guidance so that the knowledge cultivated in the pioneering commercialization regions can be horizontally developed in other regions.

From now on, I will attach materials on the efforts of each region, and I will briefly explain one by one.

The first is in Yokohama City. We will increase the number of self-driving vehicles in the city center and solve communication issues, and based on the results, we will take on the challenge of expanding commercialization in the suburbs.

The second is the city of Kobe. The city of Kobe will build vehicles with the aim of obtaining Lv4 certification by solving issues such as autonomous driving on slopes and narrow roads. The city will also work to build a business structure for the launch of the service. For these two, we will utilize modular AI technology. In Japan, the previous version, modular rule-based technology, is the mainstream, but this is an initiative that will utilize newer technology, modular AI technology. The third is the city of Sakai. This is the next technology, and it is the establishment of an autonomous driving system that utilizes end-to-end AI. Furthermore, the city will take on the challenge of utilizing the latest technology from the perspective of public awareness, enlightenment, and understanding among a wide range of citizens. That is all for (1) Project that utilizes the latest technology.

Next, (2) Operational Area Expansion Type, and the first one is Hitachi City. This is a challenge to establish technology for fixed-route buses, and although it is unique to fixed-route buses, it is about what to do when a detour is required. For example, if a fixed-time, fixed-route route cannot be taken due to an accident, etc., we will challenge the construction of a system to operate buses smoothly and on a daily basis, such as a detour route and the ideal driving speed for large vehicles. Also, the content is to work on modeling personnel allocation that achieves both safety and efficiency.

The second point is Shiojiri City. In terms of integrated management with local public transportation, one of the city's major goals, "from cars to public transportation," is to consider autonomous driving as an integrated part of local public transportation. Furthermore, the content is that we would like to challenge the economies of scale through horizontal expansion to other local governments and private lines. In addition, in addition to the challenge of refining and modeling the point of responsibility decomposition between the government and the private sector, civil and criminal, we would like to challenge a new management system such as the establishment of an SPC. Next is (iii) technical problem-solving. The first is Sendai City. Sendai City covers the area from Senzan Line Station to a hot spring resort deep in the mountains. The first is to take measures against radio wave insensitivity, respond to disasters because it is a mountain road, and respond to frozen road surfaces in snowy areas.

The next stop is Tsukuba City. In this case, in addition to dealing with on-street parking, turning right at intersections, and the timing of traffic lights, we are also taking on the challenge of operating at night and early in the morning. The content is that we would like to take on the challenge of expanding self-driving during the operating hours, which is a challenge.

The next stop is Kawasaki City. This one is about right turn signal, right turn at the intersection without right turn lane, and how to deal with the time difference signal.

Next is the city of Hiratsuka. This is also about automated driving of large fixed-route buses, and it solves the part where manual intervention occurs in the station's traffic circle. Furthermore, by utilizing AI, we would like to take on the challenge of upgrading the self-diagnosis function of vehicles.

Next is Komatsu City, Ishikawa prefecture. This is one to-n remote monitoring and right turn support. Including with or without traffic lights, we are dealing with complex intersections, and although the snow quality is different from Sendai, we would like to challenge driving in snow-covered areas and improving the stability of automatic driving.

Next is Aichi Prefecture. This is about the expressway bus. In addition to the stable operation on the expressway in the high-speed area, we would like to challenge the handling of the merging area and the stability of driving at night and in bad weather.

Next is Kyoto prefecture. In Kyoto, we are focusing on remote monitoring, and will work on bottlenecks such as delays and disruptions caused by remote monitoring system communications. In addition, we will challenge the establishment of one to-n remote monitoring operations by reducing the load of remote monitoring tasks.

The next stop is Mitoyo City, Kagawa. For Mitoyo City, we would like to work on reducing manual interventions to ensure safety when turning right, introducing road-vehicle coordination for that purpose, and improving the carrier radio wave environments for remote monitoring.

These are the 13 specific details.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Thank you for your explanation. Next, I would like to move on to the exchange of opinions. Before the exchange of opinions, I would like to read on behalf of Mr. Okamoto, who is absent today, his opinion on this agenda item.

We would like to express our gratitude to the sub-working group for considering the proposal and selecting a meaningful proposal from the region. As stated in the sub-working group's examination results (summary comments), we recognize that it is extremely important to expand to other regions through "horizontal development." We would be grateful if you could give consideration so that the knowledge of the pioneering commercialization regions, including successes and failures, can be quickly and reliably shared in the form of case studies, guidelines, etc. Five regions have been selected from the areas where our offices are located, and as a regional infrastructure operator, we will consider what value we can provide to support the implementation and continuation of autonomous driving services as we make concrete business progress in the future.
That's all for my comments. Next, I would like to hear from everyone in attendance. It will take about 3 minutes per person. When you speak, if you are online, please let us know by clicking the Teams show of hands button or making a chat function, and please unmute your microphone when you speak. Thank you very much. Then, Mr. Ishida, please start.

Member: My name is Ishida : Director Suzuki gave a thorough explanation, and I would like to introduce the discussions of the sub-working group. First, as a whole, various autonomous driving-related projects are currently being promoted in various places, including Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, and Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, and many of you expressed the view that this is a really important and good project because it shows the uniqueness of Digital Agency in that it is being centralized horizontally. Of the applications from 39 regions, the secretariat first conducted a formal and objective review, and the sub-working group held various discussions from the subjective perspective of what these points are. In doing so, you emphasized the importance of technical capabilities. From this perspective, the issue of maximum speed, the challenge of the AI base, which is becoming the mainstream in the world now, and the application of medium and large buses, which I think Japanese companies are more advanced, are also important. Or, in order to respond to regional issues, especially in hilly and mountainous areas, how to combine various services and mobility services, and how to position autonomous driving in them. In aiming for such social systemization, there are technical challenges, and I think there are 13 regions. However, as you all pointed out, although local governments are making real efforts, there are limits, so from the perspective of how to implement it nationwide, there are opinions that it is important to aim higher by providing more and more knowledge on various mechanisms and systems in industry and the country. That is all.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Thank you very much. Then, even online, I will guess in the order of a show of hands. Member Yamamoto has raised his hand, so Member Yamamoto, please.

Prof.
The telecommunications carriers are NTT Corporation, KDDI Corporation, Softbank Corporation, and Rakuten Inc., and I believe that the verification test will be based on the premise of cooperation with these telecommunications carriers. What specific forms of cooperation with telecommunications carriers are you considering? If you have already considered specific areas, please let us know.

Director Suzuki: This is Digital Agency . Regarding the first point, road-vehicle cooperation, as you said, it has been clearly indicated in Mitoyo City and Tsukuba Cities, etc. In other regions, we, Digital Agency, will take the lead in providing solid accompanying support, including from various ministries. Regarding the other point, I will confirm it accurately and answer it again. I am sorry.

Prof. Smart Pole, both the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism and Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications have already started discussions on creating a scenario for nationwide expansion. If you consider this activity in conjunction with the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism and Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, it is expected to accelerate, so I would like to ask for your cooperation.

Director Suzuki: This is Digital Agency Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism and Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, and we will take your opinion. Thank you.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Next, on behalf of Mr. Suzuki, Mr. Akimoto, please give the floor.

Mr. Suzuki (Alternate: Mr. Akimoto): I am Mr. Akimoto on behalf of Mr. Suzuki, President of the Japanese Unmanned Vehicle Operation Management Consortium. I feel that the selection of areas for advanced commercialization is appropriate. However, it is a little disappointing that Hokkaido and Kyushu are not included. If various areas are selected, such as various regional characteristics, weather environments, snow accumulation, disasters, and the presence or absence of slopes, I think that various data will be collected. Various areas will be selected according to the three patterns, and various issues and technologies will be addressed in the future. While applying them to each area, demonstration will be conducted in advance. After that, I think there will be challenges in the demonstration in each area. In order to finally expand them nationwide, I feel that how to connect them to so-called rules will be a challenge in the future. In particular, business operators who will do this, including drone routes, will implement them in advance and expand them nationwide, so we will have to create rules. In the future, I think that guidelines and manuals will be created and implemented while closely communicating with each business operator, and we will bring them together to create a nationwide version. I think that there will be differences between general and common areas and special areas, but I feel that it will be easier to expand nationwide if you proceed with the creation of standard guidelines and rules.

That's all.

Director Suzuki: This is Digital Agency For us, horizontal development is important, so we have selected regions where horizontal development is possible. Thank you for your continued guidance. Thank you very much.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Next, Member Suda, please start.

Member SUDA: . My impression is that the 13 priority areas were well distributed in a variety of ways. In terms of comments and questions, while there are cases of selection as a municipality, several cases have been adopted as a prefecture. In that case, I think that even within the city, for example, Sakai city, for example, has been demonstrated in various ways other than Robotaku. In Aichi prefecture, for example, high-speed buses are mainly used, but in Aichi prefecture as a whole, various things are being done in various places. I was wondering how these points would be coordinated. For example, when it is held in Aichi prefecture in the future, I was wondering about other points other than high-speed buses. That is all.

Deputy Director-General Okada: , thank you very much. I am Mr. Okada from Digital Agency Deputy Director-General of the secretariat. Thank you for your point. We have just decided the routes and others this time on an application basis. Probably, the local governments, prefectures, and municipalities of each applicant will conduct horizontal development within the prefecture or within the city based on this experience. As you just mentioned in Aichi prefecture, the Airport Line will once use express buses as a route, but after that, I think we will make use of the experience and do other things if things go well. If drivers are not needed on the route where automated driving is introduced, they will be transferred to other routes, so in terms of measures against the traffic vacuum, I think it is possible to use this experience to strengthen services on other routes. We have seen how it will be positioned in the traffic plan to local governments and have selected it this time. Thank you very much.

Member SUDA: .

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Thank you very much. Next, Member Muramatsu, please.

Prof. Muramatsu: Mr. Thank you for your explanation and selection. One thing from me is that I would like you to work on visualizing economic efficiency. If you unravel the importance of horizontal development, in the end, if economic efficiency cannot be ensured, everyone will cash-out, so horizontal development cannot be done. I think it is important to visualize the income and expenditure structure as much as possible in your efforts. I think that each local government will submit reporting materials, etc., and in doing so, we will request that they describe economic efficiency in a more specific and visible manner, and incorporate it into the reporting material format as necessary, so that local governments can promote initiatives that focus on economic efficiency. After verifying the latest examples that can be done now, we will confirm what kind of income and expenditure structure it is based on this effort, and I think it is necessary to visualize the volume of what has been achieved at this point, what has not been achieved, and how much economic efficiency has not been established. From the next fiscal year, if the technology is good but it is difficult to ensure economic efficiency, I think we will be able to have the next discussion on how to incorporate it into the traffic trading company function to ensure economic efficiency. I think it is better to work well on visualizing economic efficiency like this. That is all.

Director Suzuki: This is Digital Agency Thank you very much. As I explained at the beginning, the purpose is to create a model, so I would like to confirm the business structure including income and expenditure that you pointed out in the model.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Now, Mr. Mori, please take the floor.

Member MORI: . I will be participating from this time on, and I look forward to working with you. Thank you very much for choosing the regions from various perspectives. I have no particular objection to that. This time, in particular, I am grateful that you have chosen the regions while taking care of the conditions of continuity of the project and working on it for more than a year immediately from April. This time, the support system of the local government is the major premise, so if there is a situation where we are stuck in the continuity of the project or the support system of the local government, I hope that Digital Agency will take the lead in flexibly supporting each ministry.
The second point is that this time, the people in Groups (I) and (ii) will be working on the response and experiments of "Transportation Trading Company function," which has been discussed here for some time. In particular, looking ahead to future developments, I would like to ask you, as you have mentioned to Transportation Trading Company function, to take care of areas that will lead to future expansion, including, for example, creating an SPC in Shiojiri City or collaborating with surrounding communities, mainly in Digital Agency. I would like you to appeal to the local governments that are conducting the experiments about their initiatives for expansion. In any case, this experiment will focus on autonomous driving, but in addition to that, of course, there will be discussions on support for manned bus routes with insufficient drivers, mixing, car sharing, and so on, so I would like you to widely share information with the local governments participating this time to lay the groundwork for connecting to the next.
And the third point is, in order to promote the expansion of technological research, for example, conducting experiments in snowy areas was included in the two areas. In order to promote this, as I have talked a little before, it is necessary to share CAN data with everyone and make effective use of it, so I hope all the people concerned will discuss it.
That's all.

Director Suzuki: This is Digital Agency Municipality, and we have received suggestions to that effect in the proposals, but we will carefully observe that in the accompanying support. As I said, we will firmly grasp the business structure and expand it horizontally, but I believe that attracting demand and assigning people are very important points in creating the business structure. We will firmly support the accompanying support. Also, regarding the CAN data, I would like to discuss it with the relevant parties first. Thank you very much.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Now, Mr. Wakana, please start your speech.

Member Wakana: This is not so much a question as a comment or opinion, but I feel that the selection was made after careful consideration based on what you have just explained. However, looking at the results of the selection, I feel that small towns and villages will inevitably fail, and in the future, considering the horizontal development of the results, what was missing in the areas that failed? I do not want you to answer all of them now, but there are things that I want to do, and I raised my hand, and I think there are some things that have already been worked on, so what was missing? There are some areas where the self-help efforts of the people who raised their hands are not enough, and the term escort support has been used for a while, but I think the point of escort support will be the result of analyzing and sorting out what should be helped. In that sense, I was able to deal with technical issues to some extent this time, and I have high expectations for the development of those areas, although they are not complementary to social issues.
Basically, I support municipalities that have many marginal communities by operating public transportation. In recent years, I have been supporting demand transportation that includes AI, but digital human resources, or AI demand, cannot be handled locally. I feel very strongly that if there are not enough on-site people who can customize it properly, even if there is a AI, it will not work well. Not only accompanying support, but also digital human resources, if there is something missing that I want to do, I will dispatch digital human resources. If I don't take one more step, I think it will be really difficult to expand horizontally beyond what I have come here.
Another question is, this time in particular, (iii) technical problem-solving type, various points are well organized, such as each point, coping with snow, nighttime, long-distance buses, etc., and I feel that the results are very exciting. However, I wonder how people who do not know much about digital can approach the technical accumulation based on this result to see, for example, the technical results for snow problems. It is not a portal site, but I thought that the technical accumulation should be centralized, and if it is scattered only in each municipality and each manufacturer, it would be difficult for horizontal development and access by the general public, so I thought that it would be nice to approach the technical accumulation somewhere.
That's all.

Director Suzuki: This is Digital Agency Thank you very much. I believe that this is indeed an important perspective and challenge when modeling and spreading it horizontally. We have decided to provide accompanying support, but as for spreading it horizontally, based on the results of the experiment, we will discuss what kind of modeling can be done, and then how to share it. I will respond firmly based on the points made at that time. Thank you for your indication.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Okay, then, the Hidaka team, please.

Prof. Hidaka ( , I would like to ask three questions, and I would also like to ask Mr. Ishida. First of all, looking at the application areas, there are few applications from areas with a high risk of public transportation failures. I think there are various reasons for the selection, but in particular, there are few applications from the Shikoku region, Hokkaido, Kyushu region, Chugoku region, and Tohoku region, so it will be difficult to obtain examples from only the selected areas this time for underpopulated areas and areas where travel distances are likely to be long. I think it is good to select and concentrate in itself, but I think it is better to recognize that this may be a little missing. As Mr. Wakana pointed out, discussions are being held in Digital Agency to leave no one behind. Among them, although it was difficult to apply, if there is a high intention to introduce it, I think it will be important to devise ways to spread the standard model and traffic trading company function, so I think it is okay to judge from the status of applications this time on whether to apply, whether to be adopted, and beyond.
The second point is, if I could ask Professor Ishida, I believe that the screening was conducted from various perspectives. Among them, I believe that everyone recognized at the time of selection that there are areas that are suitable for the advanced commercialization area and are selected as areas that should proceed as they are, and there are areas that are likely to have some issues and omissions. I believe that the results will also lead to the ideal form of accompanying support, so I would like Professor Ishida to share his recognition that although I evaluated this, I would like this to be extended, and that this is not enough and I would like it to be done more, as a matter to be passed on. I also thought that it would be nice to discuss the ideal form of accompanying support at the working level.
Lastly, I would like to talk about the third point. As a more specific way to proceed, there is no choice but to mix the topics of local business potential and the expansion of the entire autonomous driving industry. As an automaker, I would like to expand it, and as a local community, I would like to optimize it individually. I think it is extremely difficult. Under such circumstances, I think how to create a standard model is extremely important in national and industrial policies. After working on it, as a digital public good, specific discussions such as data standards, standard models, and the sharing of APIs will be held by Digital Agency, Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, or the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport, and Tourism. Yesterday, when I saw the Sky Tree elevator incident, I thought that such an incident could occur even in such a mature technology like an elevator. Of course, autonomous driving and elevator technology are different, but it is important for technology and manufacturing to prevent such incidents from happening at the stage of early cause investigation or near-miss incidents. Therefore, for new overseas players and players in Japan, I think it is important to create a mechanism that does not vary from engineer to engineer, does not impair user safety, and prevents black-boxing.
That's all.

Director Suzuki: This is Digital Agency , if you don't mind, could you please tell us about the selection process?

Member: My name is Ishida . You are right that there are few hilly and mountainous areas, and as you explained at the beginning, Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, and others will cooperate with each other to make what they have already been doing better. We will designate it as a priority area for that purpose, so it would have been difficult for them to apply if they did not have enough physical strength. This may be a reflection on the overall scheme, but as I was talking with a person related to autonomous driving or MaaS at a certain ministry today, the secretariat is in the position of Party B, so it seems to be hesitant toward Party A, or it is difficult to reach a conclusion, such as an issue that transcends the related ministries and agencies, and I think this can be said in general. While removing such barriers, I thought it would be good to have a discussion on how to target smaller hilly and mountainous areas that raised the issue, where they have intentions, but are difficult to apply.
The second point is how the feedback should be. We also discussed this. Although it was regrettable, we thought it would be good to tell the regions that did not win, but this is related to the issue of fairness in selection, and I recognize that there is a problem from the perspective of fairness in giving special guidance to only certain regions. I thought that we might need to discuss the entire scheme of applying, evaluating, and selecting.

Director Suzuki: This is Digital Agency , thank you very much. As you pointed out, regarding the content of the proposals, in the formality review, we objectively examined whether the grounds and specificity were written, and among the 39 proposals in total, the regions that were clearly written were selected this time. I believe there were discussions on whether it should have been written like this, but from the perspective of selecting from the applicants, this time from the perspective of fairness, it was difficult. Also, regarding the horizontal development, the secretariat is not making any individual comments at this time, and we are thinking of disclosing only the selection results. I believe there will be inquiries from the applicants, and we will respond as carefully as possible.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for It's almost the scheduled time, but Mr. Tanaka, please.

Member Koda (Alternate: Mr. Tanaka): I am sorry, but I will shorten my time. Thank you for your consideration in the sub-working group. Although it overlaps with what I heard from the members, I also think that the income and expenditure structure is very important. I believe that the purpose is not only to demonstrate but also to expand horizontally, and this is very key. It is very wasteful if we do not make progress in about three years. I would like you to convey to the selected business operators that you have drawn a clear picture of the future.
In that regard, technology is also important, but when it comes to autonomous driving, as you mentioned earlier about elevators, from the residents' perspective, we need to focus on what is happening in the area. We are also a business operator in the area, and we often hear and see that self-driving buses and MaaS have already been demonstrated in the area. In that sense, I thought it would be very important to increase awareness of the implementation in the area, and to raise expectations on how the advancement of such technology will encourage behavioral changes in local people and what will happen in the area, not only for residents but also for business operators.
That's all.

Director Suzuki: This is Digital Agency Thank you very much. Regarding the mood, I think it is truly related to social acceptability, so I would like to give advice in the context of accompanying support. Thank you very much. Also, regarding the collaboration with telecommunications carriers, which I could not answer in my earlier question, both Sendai-city and Kyoto-prefecture have already received written consent from Sendai-city because NTT DOCOMO subsidiaries are included in the system. I have heard that Kyoto-prefecture is also planning to conclude agreements and other agreements, and I am aware that it will be built as a solid system. One more point, although I failed to mention it earlier, there were talks about near-miss incidents and elevators. We have confirmed that the screening items include a system to properly report near-miss incidents, and we will continue to ensure that this is done.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Thank you very much for your comments. Then, I would like to conclude this working group with 13 preliminary commercialization regions.
Next, let's move on to the next topic. Each government agency will report and explain the efforts of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism toward the social experiment of autonomous driving to the Logistics and Motor Vehicle Bureau of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism. Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, please.

Deputy Director-General Kubota (Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism): Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism. As an initiative of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, I would like to explain the recent technological trends, and based on that, I would like to briefly explain what we are going to do in the future.
As you already know, our motivation is to solve current social problems with autonomous driving technology, such as reducing accidents, eliminating blank areas for public transportation, easing traffic congestion, and solving various driver shortages. So far, the United States and China have been far ahead of us, and Waymo has started verification test in the United States and other countries. On the other hand, GM Cruise, which I thought was the leader about three years ago, has now withdrawn. In China, IT companies are leading the development of autonomous driving services, and in Japan, automakers are working with IT companies to start offering autonomous vehicles as needed around 2027. We are developing autonomous driving technology in cooperation with multiple partners, and we are also aiming for a 27-year-old Lv4 bus car such as e-Palette. We are planning to sell autonomous vehicles in cooperation with Wave in the United Kingdom from around fiscal 2027. Tier-4 and Isuzu Motors are also active, and we expect that automakers will take the lead in realizing Lv4 from the latter half of next year. In this trend, we are progressing so that we can catch up with the United States and China, which have been ahead of us.

In response to this situation, what kind of legal amendments or institutional development have we done so far? The Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism has been revising the Road Trucking Vehicles Act and the National Police Agency Road Traffic Act, and Lv4 self-driving has been institutionally enabled between the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism and National Police Agency. Another matter is that Japanese countries have been leading the formulation of standards for self-driving in the UN. Regarding the formulation of international standards for self-driving in the UN WP29, Japanese countries have been leading the formulation of standards for self-driving by serving as the vice-chair of the overall meeting or the chair of each committee that decides the standards for self-driving. It is written that discussions are under way on international standards for self-driving for Lv3 or Lv4, but most of them have been decided and we plan to reach an agreement at WP29 in June. We have made various proposals on this content, and we have been making efforts to match the international competitiveness of Japanese manufacturers that are aiming for Lv4, which I mentioned earlier. However, in order to realize full self-driving, a huge amount of data and all kinds of programs or safety measures that respond to all possible scenarios are necessary, and it is difficult to do it all at once. First, commercial vehicles will be limited to run on specific routes, while private vehicles cannot be limited to run on specific routes, so we assume that we will aim to advance self-driving technology in stages. My understanding is that the two approaches that have been taken so far are to aim for the ultimate self-driving car, with the driver taking the lead in operating the Lv2 and supporting it.

However, what has appeared since last year is AI based self-driving, so-called end-to-end. In the case of self-driving, engineers have traditionally created programs one by one according to a rule base. However, the development of AI base, which makes an AI drive on the road and makes an AI automatically self-learn, is also progressing rapidly. The speed of AI learning is overwhelmingly faster than human programming, and programming can be done cheaply and in a short time. The commercialization of AI base programming has also progressed rapidly since fiscal 2027 as I mentioned earlier. In specific terms, Nissan and Honda are aiming to sell cars based on this AI base in 2027, and in the fields of route buses, taxis, and trucks, which have been based on rules, the combination with AI and the combination of AI with the existing scenario base will be commercialized in 2027. As I mentioned earlier, if this AI base development progresses, the development period will be shortened or large-scale investment will not be required.

If mass production on an AI basis progresses, the price of vehicles will decrease, and the price of vehicles, which initially cost more than 100 million yen per unit, has fallen to tens of millions of yen at this stage, but it is expected that it will eventually fall to several million yen level, and eventually it will be possible to add a driver-assist function to conventional vehicles and charge hundreds of thousands of yen. Based on this, we understand that it is expected that self-driving cars will be implemented in advanced society at once by combining cars that were running on a scenario basis with this AI technology and end-to-end technology. Last September, we had a test drive of a Nissan car in Tokyo Prefecture, and this is a one minute video summary of the situation at that time. These cars will be brushed up and commercialized in the future. It is expected that the car with the function in the video you just watched will be released in 2027 with hundreds of thousands of options. Based on this, the government's goal for self-driving is to increase the number of self-driving service vehicles to 10,000 by 2030, including buses, taxis, and trunk line transportation trucks nationwide, although it is far from the goal. We have set this goal using these new and rapidly advancing AI technologies. In fact, we have launched a Headquarters for the Realization of an Autonomous Driving Society within the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, and we have started discussions since this January on how to change society and solve social problems. 2027

That's all from me.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Next, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications Telecommunications Bureau and Industry will explain Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications's initiatives related to the communication infrastructure that supports autonomous driving. Thank you for your attention.

Director-General of the Radio Department Onaga (Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications): Member Mori . I am the Director-General of the Radio Department of Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications. I would like to explain two points regarding Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications's recent communication-related initiatives related to autonomous driving. First of all, as a budgetary project, we are currently promoting a three point policy.
First, we are investing 500 million yen in 5G SA as a subsidized project. It is called standalone, and unlike 5G that is usually used in current mobile phones, it uses a technology called slicing, so it can achieve 100% low latency, high-speed, large capacity, and multiple connections. It is an important subsidized project for autonomous driving.
The second is, as there was a pilot project area earlier, since we also attach importance to communications, as one of the DX promotion package projects for local communities to verify the reliability of communications, we will conduct communication-related demonstrations, create a collection of models, and hold public-private liaison meetings to share information.
Finally, the third issue is coordination through communication between infrastructure and vehicles. As Chairman Yamamoto of ITS Japan mentioned earlier, the 5.9 GHz band has been allocated for use in ITS for the US, European, Chinese, and other countries to implement V2X. In Japan, we are also preparing frequencies that will enable coordination between vehicles and roadsides by having broadcasting companies move to this band, which has been used by broadcasting companies so far. This also involves the movement of frequencies, so we have allocated a budget for frequency measures.

From the next page onward, we will discuss new policies. In Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, the third workshop on "Next-Generation ITS Communications for the Autonomous Driving Era" is being held. Until the second workshop, we mainly discussed the 5.9 GHz band, which I mentioned earlier. As autonomous driving begins in various places in the future, I believe that the requirements for communications infrastructure will change in various ways, and we have been holding workshops since September last year to discuss this in a comprehensive manner. The members of the workshop include many people such as those listed here who are related to automobiles, experts, and telecommunications carriers, as well as observer related ministries and agencies. From the first to seventh workshops, we received presentations on the initiatives of various companies and the initiatives of related ministries and agencies, and in February, we entered the phase of summarizing the issues. We hope to summarize the whole and determine the direction by this summer.

The points to be discussed are, first, the rapid progress of autonomous driving, second, the roles required for communication infrastructure, such as laws and regulations response and how communication environments will be required, and how communication infrastructure will be required in accident-prone areas. Third, regarding the 5G SA that I mentioned earlier, and dedicated ITS communications, there are 5.9 GHz and 700 MHz bands, and we are considering combining them with all-optical networks such as datacenters. Fourth, regarding changes in industry trends related to communications and autonomous driving, NTT and Toyota have started discussions, NTT has established a new mobility-related company, and KDDI and Softbank are strengthening cooperation with autonomous driving-related companies. In this way, I believe there has been a change in the industry trends related to communications and autonomous driving, in which those that had been moving in each industry are now starting to work closely together.
To summarize the points of discussion, first of all, regarding mobile communications, which are circled in yellow in the upper box, we have summarized to a certain extent that mobile communications have been used mainly on smartphones, and that they are effective for wide-area measures, understanding and managing the function and situation of automated vehicles, and other matters.
The other is called ITS communications, which includes the 5.9 GHz band and the 700 MHz band that I mentioned earlier. These are dedicated communications for vehicles, and their roles and what they are suitable for are different, as shown in the table below. I will omit an explanation, but we are trying to sort out what kind of infrastructure is necessary in light of the purpose of use of communications for expressways, local roads, and others.

As for future initiatives, we are dividing the challenges into mobile communications and ITS communications. Mobile communications have made some progress in terms of coverage area. However, since it has been developed on the assumption that it will be used by people, the area coverage is still about 60% in mountainous areas, etc. Improvement of this area will be a challenge in the future. Also, regarding ITS communications, I think there are various challenges such as what should be the main body to install it, the necessary systems, and technologies. As for the direction of the initiatives, basically, as I explained earlier, we will work on the development, expansion, and advancement of communication network infrastructure, etc., focusing on the pilot commercialization area in the entire government, and we believe that further compromise, cooperation, and co-creation are important between the people who implement autonomous driving and the communication infrastructure. We have drawn a direction that it is important to build a business model ecosystem for autonomous driving and communication infrastructure that does not end with demonstration.
And there are three policy directions. (1) In order to strengthen the communications infrastructure, I mentioned 5G SA and other various entities of optical networks or ITS communications, I think it is important to have many people involved and everyone involved in the development. Furthermore, (2) from the perspective of the ecosystem, we need to consider how the business model should be. In particular, we have set the formulation of a standard model for communication utilization based on autonomous driving technology as a future challenge, and based on the demonstration results so far, we plan to move to implementation and gradually expand to social implementation and infrastructure development. (3) We have listed three basic initiatives, but we would like to clarify where and when mobile communications and ITS communications need to be developed, respectively, and share them with all parties concerned. Also, as stated in the second point, it is necessary to build a system where we can discuss autonomous driving and communication in cooperation with each other from our respective positions.
The third and final point I would like to mention is that the development of human resources and the acquisition of technologies will be important, and I believe that these will be initiatives that will serve as a common foundation. We are currently in the process of sorting out the points of discussion on these issues, and I would like to gather further opinions from the study group members I mentioned earlier and compile a direction for communications in cooperation with related ministries and agencies this summer.

That's all from me.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Thank you for your explanation. Next, I would like to move on to the exchange of opinions. Before the exchange of opinions, I would like to introduce the opinions of Mr. Okamoto, who is absent today.
First, I would like to talk about the initiatives of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport, and Tourism. Thank you for summarizing the current status of initiatives in an easy-to-understand manner. In particular, on pages 6-9, you organized the trends of autonomous driving technology in an easy-to-understand manner, which deepened my understanding. As shown on page 7, I think it is important to appropriately combine rule bases and AI bases depending on the use case in the future. Even when humans are actually driving a car, the functions of sensory systems such as recognition of pedestrians and bicycles, and the functions of braking and steering in accordance with traffic rules can be seen as operating as a combination of different mechanisms. From this perspective, I think that there is high potential for the use of neuro-symbolic AI, which integrates neural networks and other systems that process sensory information with symbolic reasoning that logically handles traffic rules, etc., in autonomous driving technology. For example, neuro-sensory and cognitive systems detect pedestrians, bicycles, other vehicles, traffic signals, signs, and lanes, etc., and estimate the position, speed, direction of travel, and behavioral intention of each object. Symbolic (rule / reasoning system): By logically evaluating complex conditions such as "cars going straight ahead take priority over cars turning right at this intersection," "stop if there are pedestrians at the crosswalk," and "red light, right-turn lane, and oncoming vehicles," it is expected that high-level decisions can be made simultaneously with safety and explainability. We would appreciate it if you would consider the positioning of a hybrid approach that includes such neuro-symbolic AI when considering future technology roadmaps. We would also like you to update the technology roadmap as needed based on recent technology trends and international discussions. function

Regarding Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications's initiatives, thank you for summarizing the current status of initiatives in an easy-to-understand manner. In order to realize safe and smooth autonomous driving, it is important to develop a highly reliable and low-latency communication infrastructure quickly and while increasing the investment effect. In doing so, from the perspective of promoting infrastructure sharing, which promotes the sharing of facilities such as base stations and optical fibers, and Watt-Bit cooperation, which optimizes power infrastructure and communication infrastructure in an integrated manner, we would like you to consider how to optimize facility formation and operation. In addition, since the advanced MCA land mobile communication in the 900 MHz band, which is currently under consideration, can also be used for remote monitoring and control of drones and autonomous driving vehicles, we would appreciate it if you could proceed with the system design and technical consideration with these use cases in mind.
Finally, this is a common opinion on Documents 3 and 4. In order to realize safe autonomous driving, in addition to a highly reliable communication infrastructure, we believe that an integrated spatial information infrastructure that enables highly accurate understanding of the surrounding situation is important. Based on infrastructure use cases such as roads, electricity, and communication, we believe that it is desirable to develop an integrated GIS and dataspace that centrally handles construction, regulation, signal control, and disaster-related information, and to reflect these design ideas in platforms such as the Uranus Ecosystem being promoted in Public-Private Partnership, thereby developing a de facto standard common infrastructure that will be widely used throughout the industry.

That will be all. Next, I would like to hear your opinions. It will take about 3 minutes per person. Please raise your hand when you speak, or if you are online, please let us know by raising your hand or making a chat function, and please unmute your microphone when you speak. Thank you very much.

Root member: I specialize in distribution and have been participating since last time. I would like to comment on the presentation by a person from the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism. You introduced taxis and buses in the context of the global development and research competition for autonomous driving, but in the future, I would definitely like to see trucks as well. The development competition for trucks is also progressing very much.
In conclusion, I completely agree that "we need to utilize AI." When I exchanged opinions with the person in charge of the development of the Chinese company Pony. ai and the American company Aurora Innovation, which have recently succeeded in commercialization, they pointed out that it is difficult for large trucks without utilizing AI. In the first place, it is more difficult to control than passenger cars, and I have heard that it is difficult to prepare everything in advance based on rules when considering things such as how to prevent accidents that occur rarely in a year and how to reduce damage even if it is an accident. Therefore, I would like to share the information. That is all.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for
Thank you very much. Next, Mr. Mori, please.

Member MORI: I would like to share three impressions and opinions with you.
The first point is about the data-based or rule-based discussions that I mentioned earlier. AI based discussions are already becoming a global trend. At this time, I believe that the public use of CAN AI, as I mentioned earlier, will become essential in analyzing accidents and other matters. I have heard that as a global trend, countries other than Japan are basically discussing this while making good use of such things, so I would appreciate it if the relevant ministries and agencies would work out a plan on this point and discuss it with manufacturers.
The second point is what the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism explained earlier. In particular, what I personally think the most is that although fixed-route buses are B2C, when it comes to driving a large number of passengers, this is actually the most difficult thing to do, and conversely, trucks are actually the easiest. Even if it is truck driving, it is a B2B business, so I think this is the easiest to approach. Taxi is the same, but if there are passengers on board, it will be a bus that handles a large number of passengers, a taxi that handles a small number of passengers, and a truck that is B2B. I think we will proceed with development while also dividing them into such categories. However, what I am a little worried about is that in advancing R & D on trucks, the global trend is still the development of trailers, and the development of trailers and towing vehicles as single vehicles is being promoted worldwide. On the other hand, if it becomes an integrated development, it will be very difficult to share technical knowledge. Therefore, I would be grateful if we could proceed with the discussion at a point close to the first start of research or practical application. In the end, there will be a shortage of cars or drivers on the ground, and what will be done with the cost of those who are watching. Basically, I think various systems will be used together. In that sense, I think it is necessary to simultaneously promote the development and discussion of function as a transportation trading company, which I mentioned earlier, and I would like to ask for your support.
The third point is that Mr. Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications spoke about communications. While it is important to link communications between infrastructure and vehicles, I believe it will be impossible forever if the service is not turned on until all vehicles are able to communicate. In that sense, I would be grateful if you could also give some thought to the interim utilization style of how to develop services in an extremely severe environment where some vehicles can communicate and some intersections can communicate.

That's all from me.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Thank you. Mr. / Ms. Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, Minister of Land, Infrastructure and Transport, do you have any comments?

Deputy Director-General Kubota (Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism): First, I would like to comment on the point raised by the fundamental members.
I'm sorry, I haven't talked about trucks yet. As you can see on page 7 of the handout, Isuzu and other companies such as Robotruck are aiming to commercialize trucks by 2027, so we recognize that we need to support their technical development in the same way as we do for buses and taxis. In addition, Mr. Mori pointed out that we should use CAN AI when the database becomes the mainstream. As you pointed out, when it becomes a AI base, one big problem is that AI must be able to put it into language and use it for accident analysis, I think. Earlier this year, Nvidia released their end-to-end technology as an open source AI. This has led to more and more companies developing on open platforms. I believe that Japanese manufacturers will make use of this and put the so-called AI control into language so that accidents can be analyzed later. Another question is about whether trucks are the mainstream of development. As I explained earlier, we are thinking about trucks in the same way, and I think there are difficulties with automated driving for both buses and trucks. Automated operation of fixed-route buses requires not only running vehicles, but also a variety of technologies, such as safety control to prevent passengers from falling down, fare collection, accurate confirmation of boarding and alighting, and departure only after all passengers have been seated. In the case of unmanned operation, factors other than these self-driving technologies are also a major challenge. In addition, for trucks, self-driving technology is required not only for single vehicles but also for tractor heads, etc., and I think it is important to develop a driving method suitable for each. In addition, trucks are extremely heavy and move at high speeds, and even the slightest near-miss incident can instantly lead to a major accident. Therefore, careful consideration must also be given to safety. We believe that it is important to take safety measures that are different from those of regular route buses that run at 30 kilometers and 40 kilometers. That's all from me.

Director-General of the Radio Department Onaga (Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications): Member Mori , thank you for your point. I am aware that it is as you pointed out. I do not think it will become widespread in a scenario where all cars become connected cars and self-driving cannot be realized unless all road-side information is received, so we plan to compile milestones along with the report of the study group by this summer. Within the milestones, we would like to proceed while discussing where to start and how many applications to start with, so we will proceed with our response based on your points. Thank you very much.

Director Suzuki: This is Digital Agency . It was pointed out by a transportation trading company and CAN date. The CAN date is as I answered earlier, but I would like to take up the transportation trading company at the next mobility working group, and I will continue to discuss and organize it. Thank you. We have also received questions and opinions online. Member Suda, please.

Member SUDA: Thank you for your explanation. I would also like to make three comments and ask questions. First of all, Mr. Kubota's talk has brought up end-to-end rapidly, and I am now thinking about a story to utilize it. However, with end-to-end, it is currently very difficult to really guarantee safety and follow traffic rules, etc., and I think we need to think about a good mechanism. I think it would be good if you could create a forum to discuss with you a little more about how to utilize end-to-end. With regard to communication, I also think it is very important to utilize V2X from a long time ago, and I was originally a machine shop and have been involved in communication, but when it comes to dissemination, I think it would be easy to understand if we start with emergency vehicles and public transportation. I think it is a very good story to include V2X in autonomous driving of public transportation, and I would like to be able to consider a scenario on how to disseminate V2X at this forum. Finally, the talk by the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism and the talk by Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications earlier seem to be separate. I thought that the discussion on how to connect end-to-end and V2X would be another major pillar. One suggestion is that a new approach and an old approach are shown on page 9, and there is a bang in the middle line, but I think it is important to create a story based on what I talked about earlier.
I have introduced three points above. Thank you very much.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Thank you very much. I would now like to give the floor to Member Ishida.

Member: My name is Ishida . Thank you very much for giving a presentation that captured a new trend. I think the question is what exactly mobility services provide. Even if we discuss whether end-to-end, rule-based, or value-based services are good, these are only means, so it is important to properly consider the purpose and the AI to be pursued, and then to act promptly.
To be very specific, the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism is currently supporting the introduction of automated driving at 100 locations, and foreign-made vehicles are coming in, but it seems that the concept of security and safety standards has not been established. In particular, China is moving from a rules-based approach, while Japan is still proceeding with rules-based approaches, so the extra cost of transplants and fittings is increasing, and what is already expensive is becoming more expensive. These are parts related to safety, but I think it is important to think about mobility services.
In that regard, in particular, mobility services for transporting people will require various additional services in addition to simply moving them. For example, shopping support, matching with medical care and watching, etc., this cannot be done no matter how excellent the Lv4 is, so I think the main service will be to basically move things, and from that point of view, I think it will be a little different. The picture on page 9 shows trucks, buses, and taxis together, and I think this picture is very well done and convincing, but since you are going to change it, I think we should consider it a little more. That is all.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Thank you very much. Next, Mr. Yamamoto, please.

Prof. : Thank you very much. I would like to make just one comment on what Mr. ONAGA Takeo, the Director-General of the Radio Department of Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, said. Automobiles are industrial products that are responsible for human lives, but when we enter the age of autonomous driving, radio waves themselves will also be an important factor that is responsible for human lives. In that sense, I very much sympathize with Mr. ONAGA Takeo, the Director-General of the Radio Department, for comprehensively summarizing technological development based on radio wave administration. On top of that, I would like to ask you for a comment. In fact, it is often said in the world that AI is important and software is important in SDV, and for that reason, there is a growing conversation about developing human resources for software. However, in fact, the number of engineers for radio wave communication, radio waves, and antennas is gradually decreasing. I understand that this is due to the decrease in the number of university laboratories and faculty members. However, considering that radio waves will become a key technology for cars themselves, I think that human resources development and engineer training in the medium to long term must be carried out in cooperation between industry, government, and academia. Of course, we in the private sector will also sweat, but my comment is that it would be very helpful if we could work together on this. That is all.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Thank you. Next, Mr. Hidaka, please.

Prof. Hidaka ( ): Thank you for your announcement. Regarding the approach to realizing autonomous driving on page 9 of the slide by the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, which I mentioned earlier, there are certainly various technologies, so I think it should be reviewed. However, regarding the description of an autonomous vehicle equipped with AI technology, there is no description of where AI is used, and here, I think it is better to verify whether there are Lv4 and Lv5 on this straight line. When using the term AI, people tend to think that AI is better in general, but for example, in underpopulated areas, when the technology is too much, or when it becomes mapless in end-to-end, the introduction cost will decrease, but the system usage fee and datacenter usage fee will increase accordingly, so there will probably be good and bad points. In order to consider how to choose, if we do not discuss after sorting out these points, I think there is a possibility that we will probably be fooled by the term AI and lose sight of the essence. I would appreciate it if there would be such a material as an appendix in the future. That is all.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Thank you very much. Next, Mr. Kawabata, please.

Member Kawabata: , I think you summarized your explanation well. Thank you very much. I also have a similar point, but it seems that we are comparing only rule-based and AI based. Depending on whether it is end-to-end or open within the AI based, there will be differences in cost and industrial structures, so I think we should avoid combining it with AI. I think it is the case with the end-to-end type in AI, the so-called Tesla pattern, but such an open-base system has been clarified, and since it is a national conference, it would be easier for companies if the direction of government support is clarified to some extent. Companies are also wondering which of them they should invest in in the future, or whether they should invest in development environments even if it costs initial costs, so I think it is time to come up with such policies. Rather than combining them as AI, I would like to consider what direction should be used to support Japan's industrial structures, such as end-to-end or open. It is not only OEMs. OEMs may survive, but I am rather worried about the supply chain side. There are still issues such as what the supply chain should invest in after the change, whether it should invest in management, or whether it should invest in the supply chain side. It is not just about autonomous driving, but when we consider the entire mobility operating system, we need to consider who should create and standardize the operating system. In Europe, we have been talking about standardization of middleware such as ESCO, so I think we need to simultaneously talk about what to do with the algorithm of autonomous driving while looking sideways at such things. That is all.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Thank you, Mr. Muramatsu. Please come in.

Prof. Muramatsu: Mr. , thank you for your explanation. I apologize for overshadowing the statements of both members, but I think one of the points that the two of you have just mentioned is what is the AI base within the range that can be achieved with 4G. As Mr. Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications mentioned earlier, I understand that 5G will spread and will be developed in the future. If we do not have that, we will not be able to achieve a AI base, which is a slightly different story. Therefore, I thought that one way to start is to consider the extent to which we can achieve a AI base in the 4G-LTE environment that we currently have as infrastructure. That is all.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Thank you very much. Thank you for your various opinions. Then, finally, if there are any comments from Director-General Miura in Digital Agency, please let me know.

Director-General Miura: I am Miura from Director-General, . Thank you very much for the lively discussion today, including the selection of the 13 pilot project areas. I will take each of the points you pointed out and proceed with the consideration. In particular, regarding the announcements by the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism and Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, I understand that you have given homework on various ways to proceed. There are some parts that I have not answered one by one, but I will respond while carefully checking the records. Only one point, the selection of the 13 sites, will be disclosed after internal procedures. Thank you very much.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for Thank you very much. There will be endless discussions, but it is the scheduled time. At the closing of this working group, Mr. Chief Uno will give a summary of the working group.

Chief Uno: Thank you very much for the lively discussions today. In particular, this time, we were able to successfully select 13 areas for preliminary commercialization. Thank you very much. As Director-General mentioned, the information will not be disclosed for a certain period of time, so please be careful how you handle the information. I believe you are participating online, but I would like to ask the relevant ministries and agencies to focus on providing support measures, and in Digital Agency, I would like you to provide solid accompanying support.
I am sorry for my comment today, but what I thought was especially important in the discussion about the pilot project areas was how to solve the combination of technical issues and social issues. For example, I think the reason why the underpopulated areas are not remaining as selected areas is that they are probably missing social issues. We need to solve the technical issues of the combination, and how to respond to social issues. There were discussions on receptivity and behavior change, and I think it gave me a hint that we need to consider these issues together. Also, I would like to thank you for the various valuable comments on the presentations from the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism and Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications. I believe these are opinions that will be referred to in the formulation of the Mobility Roadmap 2026, but one thing I was concerned about is that the Takaichi administration is focusing on investment for crisis management and investment for growth. It is close to what member Kawabata said earlier, but for example, from the perspective of Minister in charge of Administrative Reform Okada, etc., in what direction Japanese investment should be promoted, and what do you think about issues like cybersecurity? I think that autonomous driving is a dangerous issue if we do not fully address cybersecurity, and I think it is necessary to discuss what Japanese winners are in the development of autonomous driving. I thought that I probably did not include that part in the discussion today.
I look forward to hearing your opinions on this matter in the future.

Director for Policy Planning, Yamagata: Thank you very much for . Thank you again for your various opinions today. If you have any additional opinions, we would appreciate it if you could send them to the secretariat by the end of this week. The materials for this plenary meeting will be published on the Digital Agency website. In addition, the minutes will also be published on the Digital Agency website after they are reviewed by experts. The date of the next 15th working group meeting is currently being arranged and is scheduled for late March.

This is the end of the 14th Mobility Working Group today. Thank you all very much for your time today.

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