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2nd Expert Meeting for Policy Evaluation and Public Administration Project Review in 2023

Overview

  • Date and time: Friday, April 21, 2023, from 13:30 to 12:00
  • Location: Online
  • Agenda:
    1. Opening
    2. Agenda
      1. Direction of solutions for each business
        1. One Government Website
        2. Travel expenses, etc. Common system for internal management operations (SEABIS) (1 business)
        3. Personnel and Payroll Information System (1 business)
        4. Government Identity Management Advanced-service, Government officials, etc. Attribute Information Management Platform (2 businesses)
      2. Policy Evaluation and Administrative Project Review Interim Report (Draft Report)
      3. Selection of Projects for the Disclosure Process
    3. Other (future)
    4. Adjournment

Material

Summary of the Proceedings

Date and

Friday, April 21, 2023, from 13:30 to 16:00

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Held online

Attendees

Member of the

Chair SATO, Committee Members IWASAKI, SASASHIMA and MITO
*Mr. Shimada was absent on the day. However, he submitted his opinion in writing.

Summary of the Proceedings

After an opening statement by the secretariat and an opening address by Masaki Okushi State Minister for Digital Transformation, the meeting proceeded under the chairmanship of the chair.
The secretariat read out the written opinions of Mr. Shimada, who was absent on the day of the meeting. Subsequently, based on the order of the meeting, questions and answers were taken on each of seven frameworks for discussion: "policy objectives," "target setting," "approach (policy tool)," "time frame and duration," "budget and system," "stakeholders," and "management process."

State Minister for Digital Transformation's greetings and main questions are as follows.

Greetings from State Minister for Digital Transformation Okushi

This is OGUSHI Masaki from State Minister for Digital Transformation.
I was unable to attend the first meeting of the previous meeting due to my official duties, but I have heard that you have had fruitful discussions. Thank you again.
I look forward to working with you today as well.
This was explained by the secretariat last time, but last year, as Digital Agency had just been inaugurated, I heard that in the policy evaluations and administrative project reviews, an overview of the projects that had been promoted up to that point was reported, and that the contents received messages of support from everyone.
This fiscal year, we would like to go a step further and aim for a win-win relationship between those who are evaluated and those who are evaluated, targeting projects that have issues that are difficult to solve by the efforts of each person in charge alone, although there is room for improvement, while clarifying the issues and receiving useful advice for promoting policies.
In this way, Digital Agency will draw on the wisdom of experts to compile improvement measures and specific directions for review, which will be reflected in changes to related plans and requests for budget and personnel.
I heard that we could not exchange our opinions sufficiently last time because of the limited time.
I would like to ask all of you gathered here today to engage in forward-looking discussions that will lead to the resolution of the problems faced by those in charge as we prepare to compile the report. I would appreciate your cooperation.

1. Government website (1 project)

<Policy objectives>
Member: , there is a proposal for the standardization and unification of government websites. Standardization and unification are important, but I also think that the accumulation and updating of know-how and best practices related to improving the convenience of websites should be spread more, or that the concept of the plan should be reviewed. What is your recognition on this?

Instructor: does not have a uniform direction, such as creating a single website and including everything there. However, I believe that individual elements such as ease of viewing, ease of reaching necessary information, and ease of moving to necessary information must be firmly realized on the websites of each ministry and agency.
We will share the experiences we have gained through Digital Agency's own website as well as the experiences of other ministries and agencies to move forward together, and we will move forward because our knowledge may reduce costs at ministries and agencies and increase convenience for users.

Member: policy goals should not necessarily be uniform, but should include elements such as improvement of convenience and best practices. I understand that this is related to the creation of administrative project review sheets, but please tell us whether the set goals will be reviewed in terms of improvement of convenience and setting of best practices.

Instructor: I would like to consider a little more about how it should be changed. In the context of standardization and unification, we have just advanced the idea of creating a single website empirically, but it is not necessarily a good goal. However, I think that if we continue to create standardization of how to do it and unification of parts, the burden on each ministry and agency will be reduced and the burden on the user side will also be reduced.

Policy measures
Member: : At present, documents related to websites seem to be independent. However, depending on the person in charge at each Ministry and Agency, it may be difficult to understand the positioning of the documents. Since Digital Agency has been established, I assume that the persons in charge at each Ministry and Agency think it would be easier for them to understand if the documents are clearly positioned at Digital Agency. What are your thoughts on this?

Instructor: Government has established unified guidelines or accompanying documents as a common foundation for the government.
Based on these guidelines, each ministry and agency is currently considering how to build the necessary websites. However, due to the nature of the guidelines, I think that there is a wide range and that the question of how to build websites in accordance with the guidelines is insufficient.
Therefore, I would like to follow up on this and have each ministry and agency refer to it, and additional documents are being prepared. In the form of a reference document, for example, if we are to design it, we are proceeding in such a way that it would be easier to convey if we create it by incorporating this way of thinking.
Of course, outsourcing is expected, so we would like to make the materials easy to understand for contractors.

Member: administrative organs must provide information in a sustainable manner. To put it in an extreme way, it is necessary to ensure that information can be used properly even after it has been archived, so please tell us your recognition of whether or not you will work on the characteristics unique to administrative organs in the future.
In addition, the administration is required to provide information on a continuous basis and for a considerably long period of time, so I think that efforts related to this will be made in the future. Please also tell us about this point.

Instructor: , I think one major point is that we can continue to refer to it or reuse it in the future. Digital Agency is building a website in such a way as to distinguish the web expression from the internal data, and we are working on the idea that the text, or rather the content, can be used as it is even if it is submitted to other systems in the form of, for example, APIs.
In addition, there is a problem that links are broken when the website is updated. By archiving the portal site called the CIO Portal, we are trying to maintain a state in which it can be viewed in a cost-saving manner, and we are conducting experimental efforts. At that time, we were careful not to break links, and we realized it by leaving the same information at the same URL. While considering maintenance costs, we think we must continue to send old information. In that sense, I think Digital Agency's efforts worked well as an experiment, and we would like to share it with each ministry and agency.

Member: : "What kind of information do you have?" I think this is a trend of many people today. There is a term AISAS, which is a marketing method in the private Internet era. Consumers first pay attention to something, and then they become interested in it. They search for it, take action, and purchase products or services. They don't stop there. They also share it. They evaluate it and send it to their friends and acquaintances through social media, etc. This is the flow that we are focusing on in marketing now. The government's common website is positioned in the AISAS, and the "S" in the middle is "search." I think it would be good for you to design it by being aware of the attention and interest parts at the previous stage. Please tell us your recognition.
In addition, I think that it is also related to the improvement of convenience as a slight modification of the standardization and unification of policy objectives and what is the best practice, so please tell us your recognition.

Instructor: e-Gov, which is a business-related procedure system, plays the roles of "S" and "A" in the AISAS model by searching for procedures and then carrying out procedures. However, that alone is not sufficient, and as you pointed out, we must firmly work on the "A" and "I" parts. In addition, the last "S", which is the transmission of social media, is also important. Our website also has the aspect of "I", which is our own owned media, so we will connect it to what we need as our own media. Since we have focused on the "S" and "A" parts so far, we consider the "A" part, the "I" part, and the last "S", which is the Share part, to be one of the roles in realizing it. We will continue to carefully consider the points you pointed out.

Member: Active Learning. I think there is a way to participate as much as possible in the projects of each ministry and accumulate information on the field, and develop human resources by accompanying them. What is your recognition of this?

Instructor: pointed out is very important, and we also recognize that the scope of what we can do is limited if we do it alone, and that it is necessary to develop human resources with a certain level of ability in each ministry and agency.

<About stakeholders>
Member: government's common website is not necessarily a strong system. Under the current system, I think it is quite difficult to support the websites of the ministries and agencies. If the system cannot be strengthened, I think we will have to consider reviewing priorities and project contents. What is your recognition?

Instructor: are engaged in the project, but both of them work concurrently with other teams, and the current situation is that none of them can be involved professionally. Until now, we have been through trial and error to realize how to accurately convey information on various places through the website and properly deliver it to users. I think there will be aspects of focusing on what areas and doing it gradually rather than doing it all at once, but I will continue to work steadily.

Member: Web. Design goes in and out of style. It seems to make use of open source, but open source projects die really quickly when there are no more people to maintain them or use them. Considering the government's website, I think there are times when it will continue to be provided for a long period of time, but please tell us your recognition of whether it can be provided for a long period of time.

Instructor: The most important thing about design is to make it visible to various people rather than to make it look good. In this regard, there are some parts that cannot be done without specialized knowledge, and even if we outsource it to a business operator, they do not necessarily have sufficient knowledge. We have been working to create an environment that supports this and can deliver information to the people who need it.
Also, frameworks come and go, so even if you move to a new framework, the data can still be used.

2. Travel Expenses, etc. Common system for internal administration (SEABIS) (1 project)

<Target setting>
Member: 's "Goal Setting," you mentioned two things, the rate of utilization and the reduction of expenses. I think it is also important to enable people to use services without stress. It may be difficult to set a numerical KPI, but I think there are various ways to do this, such as increasing the number of people who are satisfied or very satisfied by conducting a questionnaire. I would like to see an indicator for improving satisfaction. What is your recognition of this?

Instructor: We are currently in the process of migrating to the cloud, but as you pointed out, once we have a new system, what will we aim for next? I think we should further improve the convenience of users, etc.

Approaches (policy measures)
Member: routes and standardizing travel expenses, but there are differences in the way the manual is applied in the field, or that the manual has become complicated. I think it is necessary to analyze the root cause of the problem and take measures. What is your recognition?

Instructor: users, I think analysis of the current situation is a must. In addition, there are cases where special factors such as sudden incidents are involved, so in a sense, there will naturally be some variation in operation, but I would like to eliminate local rules for inefficient parts in similar cases.

Member: system and the system itself. In some cases, it may be said that it is putting the cart before the horse, but I think it is also important to adjust the legal system to the system. Is it true that you have already made a commitment to the ministries and agencies in charge of the Travel Expenses Act?

Instructor: Basically, our SEABIS system aims to be a simple system, and this point has been repeatedly communicated to the regulatory authorities.

<About stakeholders>

Member: system and the operation manual are under the separate jurisdiction of Digital Agency, and that the management and operation of the system is under the jurisdiction of Tokyo Metropolitan Government. However, I am concerned that the lack of participation of stakeholders in the project promotion team may cause the project to go awry. In order to become a one team, I think it would be good to have the ministries and agencies in charge participate in the project promotion system and give their opinions. What is your recognition of this?

Instructor: We have already exchanged various administrative matters, and we would like to continue to cooperate.

3. Personnel and Payroll Information System (1 business)

4. Government Identity Management Advanced-service, information management platform for attributes of government employees, etc. (2 projects)

* It was decided to discuss 3. and 4. together as they were related.

<Policy purpose of the information system for personnel and salary-related operations>
Member: : At the last meeting, it was pointed out that compared to the personnel system in the private sector, the scope of the national system may be a little narrow. However, there is a concern that if we add the missing function to the system, we will have no choice but to build a system like a graft. Please tell us if you are considering taking this opportunity to review the scope of system building and expand it a little.

Instructor: is narrow, or rather, that the project is working in a limited area. In the future, I would like to proceed with the review with an image and direction of another system or the possibility of data linkage so that the services provided by the private sector can be well incorporated for the renovation.

<Setting of targets for the personnel and payroll information system>

Member: 's data, in a society that has both a personnel system and a salary system, the only goal setting is the number of government offices and ministries that have introduced the payment system. I thought it would be natural for the personnel system to be included in the goal, so I thought it would be better to set a target for the number of government offices and ministries introducing the payment system. What is your recognition of this?

Instructor: Personnel Affairs and Payroll System is a set, and it has been introduced to all ministries and agencies that are subject to common payroll, and is being used by all. However, the payroll calculation is more complicated and the needs of the payroll system are higher, but the current situation is that the personnel system is also being used sufficiently. However, the data-linkage with Government Identity Management Advanced-service is limited to seven ministries and agencies.
Please note that Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Ministry of Defense and Reconstruction Agency each have their own systems, and the systems are quite different, so they are not eligible for the personnel and salary system because they are not suitable for standardization.

Instructor: Regarding the data-linkage between the personnel and salary system, which is currently limited to seven government offices and ministries, and Government Identity Management Advanced-service, I think a major challenge is how to promote data-linkage between the systems of government agencies other than the seven government offices and ministries and agencies in Government Identity Management Advanced-service. Government Identity Management Advanced-service and the person in charge of the personnel and salary system would like to work together as a team.
<Policy measures for the personnel and payroll information system>

Member: , I recognize that there were considerable requests for improvement from each ministry and agency, but why is it difficult to use on-site? I think it is important to investigate the root cause based on objective facts about the needs of staff who will be users or convenience, etc. Please tell us about the current efforts.

Instructor: At present, we are able to handle certain tasks, but we recognize that we are not able to handle what we need to do, so to speak. We receive a large number of user requests from each government agency, but we are working on improvements by eliminating duplication, etc., coordinating requests, and prioritizing them. We would like to consider measures based on objectivity or grounds based on figures, such as by logging them.
<Structure of the information system for personnel and salary-related operations>

Member: Scope, I think it is also important to review systems and roles. Also, regarding the next issue, "stakeholders," people outside the organization feel that the situation is serious in which the government office is a stakeholder and the only communication is the exchange of FAQs. It may be a bad way to put it, but it is in a state of subcontracting. Therefore, I think it is important for everyone in the organization to join the project team and worry together. Please tell us your recognition.

Instructor: , there is a division that is in charge of mutual aid and accounting systems in National Personnel Authority, Cabinet Bureau of Personnel Affairs, and Ministry of Finance. In addition, customs officers, special police officers, and other legal officers also use the personnel and salary system, but the systems change at different times from those of general employees, and we cannot obtain as much information as we would like only by exchanging questionnaires. We also think that it is very desirable to establish a system in which the department that is in charge of public officer systems plays a central role, not as a stakeholder, but as a team. public officer
<Policy Means for Authentication Service of Staff>

Member: is a core system when using various information systems. However, I have heard that data entry and other operations are not necessarily automated, but rather are taken in manually. I think there are various problems, such as inconsistent data formats. Will you work on improving them?

Instructor: . When transferring personnel, if there is a gap between the actual transfer and the information on the official announcement, it is necessary to capture the transfer information from the unofficial announcement stage, but I understand that it is very difficult because the real-time nature requires human resources and labor. I think that skillfully capturing realistic data, including the data held by personnel, will be a major key to the future of authentication services.

Member: : Based on your answer, I can only surmise that the reason why data-linkage is limited to seven ministries and agencies is due to various circumstances on the part of the personnel system rather than the problem of Government Identity Management Advanced-service. What is your recognition on this?

Instructor: personnel and salary system, I understand that the information held in the personnel and salary system is not sufficient as information necessary for personnel information. The personnel and salary system is more granular, and I understand that Government Identity Management Advanced-service wants more detailed information. I imagine that, for example, Government Identity Management Advanced-service may need detailed information such as which section a staff member is assigned to, but if the personnel and salary system holds information on sections that are not originally necessary for issuance, it may lead to issuance errors. Therefore, as a person in charge of personnel, I do not want to hold such detailed and unnecessary information as information on the system. Government Identity Management Advanced-service

Member: and the personnel and salary systems in terms of the quality of the information they maintain? What is Government Identity Management Advanced-service's recognition of this issue?

Instructor: I believe that the gap between the data in the personnel and salary system and the data on the people actually assigned to them is the reason why we are limited to seven ministries. In particular, the larger the number of employees of a ministry, the more time and effort it takes, so I believe that we are hesitant to do so and are in the current situation.

Member: 's recognition, based on that, please tell us again the recognition of the personnel and salary system side.

Instructor: Digital Agency. Before it became Digital Agency, we didn't say much to each other because we were both doing it in different ministries and agencies. But now that we are united as Digital Agency, I think we have to recognize the issues and think about solutions together. Therefore, I would like to consider it, including whether it can be set as a goal. First of all, I would like to have a short face-to-face talk with the person in charge of Government Identity Management Advanced-service.

Member: Certification System has recently been working on the so-called Zero Trust Network, or Zero Trust Architecture. This is easy for job type employment organizations, but it is quite difficult for generalist-oriented plus membership-type employment. The core is ID management, but access management needs to be done depending on the job, and if you fail to do so, a serious problem will occur in terms of security. What kind of policies are you working on?

Instructor: In order to properly implement access control, I think that even relatively detailed and realistic information is necessary as employee attribute information. At the same time, it is necessary to firmly ensure the consistency of employee IDs. Therefore, I would like to consider from a slightly wider perspective, from real information to ensuring the consistency of IDs, and then as attribute information of that employee, as more detailed information, how to work well with the information we have.

(2) Policy Evaluation and Administrative Project Review Interim Report (Draft Report)
*Preliminary report (draft) explained by the secretariat

Member: Report.

Member: report, and I have no particular objection to it.

<If there is a need to revise the content, it was decided unanimously by the members present and left to the discretion of the chairman.>

(3) Selection of Projects subject to the Disclosure Process
*In line with the idea that the disclosure process is an explanation for the people, the Secretariat recommended that the "Common Government Website" be included as a target project of the disclosure process in the sense of "services for the people" among the projects taken up by this Advisory Council.

Member: (all members present) No objection

Greater than or